Consultation

[Lincox]

Listening, consulted and carrying on the same. The English Dictionary should amend the meaning of consultation. There can only be a true result of any consultation and that is when all of the interested parties are in the same room at the same time and there is a show of hands in support or against a principle, and an agreement to proceed with that outcome. All consultations are a sham when the interested parties are so wide spread and the people carrying out the consultation have an interest in the result. So are we likely to be any better off after this consultation. I doubt it.

[Big Daz]

A consulatation done by 6 national reps is going to take a very long time so what I feel needs to happen is to utlise the hundreds of reps across the country to get things started find out what is bothering the mbrs find out their hopes aspiration and fears and get that info pushed upward and make Dave Ward his team and the PEC aware. It dosent have to replace what Dave and co are planning but complement it.



I'll summarise the view of mbrs at my D.O

They dont want later starts that may well happen with WS mail

They want DTD payments back

They dont want delivery methods

They dont want bigger deliveries

They want a no questions asked policy from RMl when they book heavy del or cut off.

They want to keep J and F

Now when sending this upwards I would provide some detail to each heading.

Its a start but certainly not the be all and end all of acheiving the aims of the conference motion.

[dvbuk55]

A consulatation done by 6 national reps is going to take a very long time so what I feel needs to happen is to utlise the hundreds of reps across the country to get things started find out what is bothering the mbrs find out their hopes aspiration and fears and get that info pushed upward and make Dave Ward his team and the PEC aware. It dosent have to replace what Dave and co are planning but complement it..

Tell me BD you go to conference, are you seriously suggesting not one branch member has said to Dave Ward, his team and the PEC that the shop floor are disgruntled, disenfranchised and feckin disinterested - because if that is true then we are sending the wrong people to conference, have elected the wrong people and should ask for a refund because the service we are paying for is definitely not being provided. It does beg the question though exactly what are the aims of those at conference?

[wayoutman]

daz, its like FT says.

the reps are part of the problem in some DOs.

they are relaying info up the line that is untrue regarding failing revisions.

we didnt get any say whatsoever on any part of the new duties, and when the DOM was asked his reply was the rep had signed it off.

i fully appreciate this is not you daz but it does go on.

[Big Daz]

A consulatation done by 6 national reps is going to take a very long time so what I feel needs to happen is to utlise the hundreds of reps across the country to get things started find out what is bothering the mbrs find out their hopes aspiration and fears and get that info pushed upward and make Dave Ward his team and the PEC aware. It dosent have to replace what Dave and co are planning but complement it..

Tell me BD you go to conference, are you seriously suggesting not one branch member has said to Dave Ward, his team and the PEC that the shop floor are disgruntled, disenfranchised and feckin disinterested - because if that is true then we are sending the wrong people to conference, have elected the wrong people and should ask for a refund because the service we are paying for is definitely not being provided. It does beg the question though exactly what are the aims of those at conference?

I dont go to conference as im just a local rep and we dont go to conference. I went in 2008 for the very first time but that was only for postal conference which was Wednesday to Friday. Its branch commitee members and trainee delegates who go to conference at my branch. I know have seen and learnt how conference works and that is good and important knowledge for a rep to have.

[Lincox]

So basically your members are not interested in the Business Transformation Agreement at all. So why was this voted in, as it seems that most members are against it. Was it because our union leaders wanted this so badly that they came off their perches to sell it. What did they get out of it, and what are they receiving on a day to day basis. Why do they need to keep everything behind closed doors, who are they representing. Many questions to answer regarding the way our union is operating, apart from the surmounting problems on a day to day basis with our jobs.

[dvbuk55]

So basically your members are not interested in the Business Transformation Agreement at all. So why was this voted in, as it seems that most members are against it. Was it because our union leaders wanted this so badly that they came off their perches to sell it. What did they get out of it, and what are they receiving on a day to day basis. Why do they need to keep everything behind closed doors, who are they representing. Many questions to answer regarding the way our union is operating, apart from the surmounting problems on a day to day basis with our jobs.

Well Lincox, I think you have raised some very good points there, not least of all. whose benefit is the union being run for?

[Big Daz]

daz, its like FT says.

the reps are part of the problem in some DOs.

they are relaying info up the line that is untrue regarding failing revisions.

we didnt get any say whatsoever on any part of the new duties, and when the DOM was asked his reply was the rep had signed it off.

i fully appreciate this is not you daz but it does go on.

Oh dear that is not good, the exact opposite at my D.O, I have a simple policy if the mbrs vote no I dont sign. Took four votes and a total eradication of major change to get a revison voted for.

[Big Daz]

Lincox

Your are 100% correct with two exceptions sequenced mail is fine although they want it to arrive early enough so as to not have move to later starts and they are happy with 39 hr week. As sequenced mail replaces walksorted mail, IPS mail will continue to arrive at normal time so hopefully if a operational need to move to later starts came along it will be limited to handful of non IPS rurals.

[dvbuk55]

daz, its like FT says.

the reps are part of the problem in some DOs.

they are relaying info up the line that is untrue regarding failing revisions.

we didnt get any say whatsoever on any part of the new duties, and when the DOM was asked his reply was the rep had signed it off.

i fully appreciate this is not you daz but it does go on.

Oh dear that is not good, the exact opposite at my D.O, I have a simple policy if the mbrs vote no I dont sign. Took four votes and a total eradication of major change to get a revison voted for.

Cracks me up. Took 4 votes a total eradication of major change to get a revision voted for - what was left for revision? BT 2010 was all about major change.
Is it any wonder that RM lose patience and institute EA.......you just cannot keep saying no to change.

[Danelectro]

they are relaying info up the line that is untrue regarding failing revisions.

we didnt get any say whatsoever on any part of the new duties, and when the DOM was asked his reply was the rep had signed it off.

.

If this scenario occurs what is the best option if a majority of members disagree with the signing off without
a vote and also if the rep is an area rep does this make any difference ie stage 3 disagreements are usually settled
by the area rep anyway,so at that point can a majority in the office do anything about it? I may have this problem shortly
so whats the options folks?

[dvbuk55]

they are relaying info up the line that is untrue regarding failing revisions.

we didnt get any say whatsoever on any part of the new duties, and when the DOM was asked his reply was the rep had signed it off.

.

If this scenario occurs what is the best option if a majority of members disagree with the signing off without
a vote and also if the rep is an area rep does this make any difference ie stage 3 disagreements are usually settled
by the area rep anyway,so at that point can a majority in the office do anything about it? I may have this problem shortly
so whats the options folks?

Our Rep wouldn't sign it off because there was issues with the model week, passed it up under disagreement, the Area Rep signed it off "so the members could get the £200"......................the guys all heart

[Danelectro]

Cracks me up. Took 4 votes a total eradication of major change to get a revision voted for - what was left for revision? BT 2010 was all about major change.
Is it any wonder that RM lose patience and institute EA.......you just cannot keep saying no to change.

Is Big Dazs manager Doug McClure? cos it seems like its The Land That Time Forgot hes working in,the boss dosnt believe the
mail from the mail centre is correct and an office vote and a flash of your union card
has Royal Mail backing off like dracula in the sunlight!

nice work if you can get it though

[Martin Walsh]

The consultation will be taking place. But lets get things straight its not going to be about going back in time ie door to door or for matter 2 deliveries or when we use to get an IWM bonus payment back in the 80s or when we got saturday premium. The boat has truely left the harbour on those issues.

The conusltation is going to be about revisons and what is exactly happening in your offices as either as a result of a BAU revison , delivery methods revison or a walk sequencing revision.

Now I think it is an issue on later starts as Royal Mail seems to have adopted a policy of starts times based on the second way arrivals working back from the delivery span. This ingnores the fact that often 60% of sequenced mail and some manual mail is in a delivery office from as early as 0500.

[Danelectro]

Our Rep wouldn't sign it off because there was issues with the model week, passed it up under disagreement, the Area Rep signed it off "so the members could get the £200"......................the guys all heart

Bastard.Aye thats the scenario im alluding to,so can the office tell the area rep to do one in a nutshell?