Compulsory Redundant

[POSTMAN]

Will you fit in a SAE?

Self Addressed Envelope

[Budfrog]

I am in the same position, was told 2 weeks ago that there was nothing suitable for me and I was going to be placed in the SAE. I given a quote for VR but after reading all the comments I am confused about which is best VR or CR.

Can someone help or point me in the right direction

Thanks

There are posters on this board who left with the support staff earlier in the year who have said they refused to sign the legal disclaimer and ended up with better terms than the reduced 'support' terms. What this probably meant was they were given MTSF 2, or the same terms that front-line manager are being offered.

I would not make a decision without take advise from the CMA (god help us!) but if it were my choice at the moment I wouldn't sign anything unless the terms were MTSF 2.

[sentpacking]

Be very careful how you play this. I don't know of anybody who picked up a job when in the SAE group (not saying it didn't happen just that I never knew of anybody). All of my colleagues ended up either taking vr or being made compulsory. Because of my age, grade and length of service I was entitled to immediate payment of my pension plus an enhancement if I was made compulsory, which was more than my vr offer (even with only having statutory terms ie no significant redundancy lump sum). Some of my colleagues took a much lesser deal as a vr offer (but had a larger lump sum), primarily because of their age (they wouldn't get an immediate pension). The business was not messing about when this threat arose, there was no negotiation of terms and , as far as I am aware, MTSF wasn't mentioned. In my case, I was given a chance to take vr and, when I didn't sign the paperwork, was made compulsory redundant. Interesting to note that the papers are still stating that there have been no compulsory redundancies. I, and a number of my colleagues beg to differ. Also interesting to note that the business spin is that if you don't take vr you 'accept' compulsory redundancy. No you don't, compulsory means exactly that, you are effectively sacked with a pay-off.
As for the CMA, it would be difficult to find a more ineffective and useless bunch. A friend of mine, also made compulsorily redundant, told me that he wrote to the CMA when he was told to attend the final interview and asked them if he was going to be made redundant. Even at that point they would not admit to what was going on. It's no consolation but this is politics, it's not personal. In fact, I was told recently that the area I used to work in is now understaffed so new people needed to be recruited.
My sympathy to anybody who finds themselves in this position but don't be under any illusions, this is real and they will enforce cr if you don't take the vr offer. Be very careful how you respond to them and make sure you do the sums to be sure you know where you stand financially. Unfortunately, however, you are on your own and the CMA will be of no help to you.

Good luck.

[Budfrog]

I was told recently that the area I used to work in is now understaffed so new people needed to be recruited.

And RM has just advertised for another intake of Graduates ... downsizing and upsizing at the same time :)

[nwlittlejo]

I was told recently that the area I used to work in is now understaffed so new people needed to be recruited.

And RM has just advertised for another intake of Graduates ... downsizing and upsizing at the same time :)

Sounds like its out with the old...in with the new How will new recruits do any better, when they don't have any experiance, a lot of the people they have got rid off started off as posties and knew the business inside out

[Mad Max]

Be very careful how you play this. I don't know of anybody who picked up a job when in the SAE group (not saying it didn't happen just that I never knew of anybody). All of my colleagues ended up either taking vr or being made compulsory. Because of my age, grade and length of service I was entitled to immediate payment of my pension plus an enhancement if I was made compulsory, which was more than my vr offer (even with only having statutory terms ie no significant redundancy lump sum). Some of my colleagues took a much lesser deal as a vr offer (but had a larger lump sum), primarily because of their age (they wouldn't get an immediate pension). The business was not messing about when this threat arose, there was no negotiation of terms and , as far as I am aware, MTSF wasn't mentioned. In my case, I was given a chance to take vr and, when I didn't sign the paperwork, was made compulsory redundant. Interesting to note that the papers are still stating that there have been no compulsory redundancies. I, and a number of my colleagues beg to differ. Also interesting to note that the business spin is that if you don't take vr you 'accept' compulsory redundancy. No you don't, compulsory means exactly that, you are effectively sacked with a pay-off.
As for the CMA, it would be difficult to find a more ineffective and useless bunch. A friend of mine, also made compulsorily redundant, told me that he wrote to the CMA when he was told to attend the final interview and asked them if he was going to be made redundant. Even at that point they would not admit to what was going on. It's no consolation but this is politics, it's not personal. In fact, I was told recently that the area I used to work in is now understaffed so new people needed to be recruited.
My sympathy to anybody who finds themselves in this position but don't be under any illusions, this is real and they will enforce cr if you don't take the vr offer. Be very careful how you respond to them and make sure you do the sums to be sure you know where you stand financially. Unfortunately, however, you are on your own and the CMA will be of no help to you.
Good luck.

All of this was my experience too, so I would totally agree with the last paragraph.
Best of luck, there is a better world out there :its just difficult to appreciate that when you are going through this.

[Mad Max]

I was told recently that the area I used to work in is now understaffed so new people needed to be recruited.

And RM has just advertised for another intake of Graduates ... downsizing and upsizing at the same time :)

Sounds like its out with the old...in with the new How will new recruits do any better, when they don't have any experiance, a lot of the people they have got rid off started off as posties and knew the business inside out

They get rid of people at the top of their salary grades, allowances & holidays etc

They replace them with people who come in at the bottom of lower grades with new t & c's

=they save a lot of money

[Budfrog]

Just had the dreaded "you are part of the affected population for headcount reduction" etc etc.

Leaving dates to be end of financial year which gives me Dec to find a job (3 months notice). Not a lot of jobs about in Dec ... a few that are never advertised which I will never find out about on templates that are kept well under wraps.

Not good .... Stick or Twist, VR or CR ??? who knows >>> public sector workers think they have things bad :)

[Ex RM Manager]

No great surprise. I was told my options would "narrow very quickly" if I didn't take VR. I only took VR because the day I had to post my form in, I got a phone call offering me another job.

[Budfrog]

A period of Anal then I unhitch my trusty steed and ride off into the sunset. Can't say that RM has treated me any more than a payee number at the end of the day and whilst I have worked with some great people at all grades it is disappointing that certain behaviours for which staff at the lower end of the food chain would be sacked are encouraged at the higher end (or at least not discouraged).

Will the business change for the better?, I doubt, too many of our rivals are even more ruthless towards their staff than RM and in the present climate it is a buyers market.

[baldrick]

Best Wishes for the future Budfrog.
I hope you find a job where you are treated better than in RM.

[Budfrog]

Best Wishes for the future Budfrog.
I hope you find a job where you are treated better than in RM.

Thanks Baldrick, much appreciated.

As a footnote - for staff who are leaving on VR within 6 weeks of the end of the tax year RM could, if it so wished, defer payment till April and save those leaving (quite often onto small pensions) a sizeable amount of tax as that income would form part of next years earnings. It is not the case that they cannot do this or are prevented by HMRC from doing it. It is simply that they do not wish to do it.

However under the terms of last years corporate review (Senior Managers/SBs etc) - they were issued a preference form with the options of commuting part of their compensation to pension, payment of all or part in March, payment of all or part in April. So those with the highest salaries and presumably the highest severance packages are given tax friendly options whilst others are not.