Consultation

[fishtank]

I think it's getting close to the point where local areas will simply have to look after themselves and wait to be picked off or fight.
Local issues,local IA,local agreements.
It's a disastrous situation for a national union to get itself into but it's not as if they were not warned.
The obvious question then is why are we paying £8million in salaries and benefits for a national union that clearly isn't national?

[dvbuk55]

I think it's getting close to the point where local areas will simply have to look after themselves and wait to be picked off or fight.
Local issues,local IA,local agreements.
It's a disastrous situation for a national union to get itself into but it's not as if they were not warned.
The obvious question then is why are we paying £8million in salaries and benefits for a national union that clearly isn't national?

Well I suppose it is national if selectivity can be classed as such. They have clearly failed to address the National issues and become bogged down with and chose to prioritise local issues. In order to justify their existence they need a period of re-unification........and in order to achieve that they need to take seriously the widest consultation of members and identify the problems that are universal and start to address them and quickly.

I get the feeling that the union are somehow marking time, what for I don't know, privatisation, anti union legislation???????? they just seem to be like a rabbit in the headlights, transfixed and mesmerised.

[Lincox]

Dingo as reported by Fishtank, the time scale since the executive announced a national consultation is six weeks ago. Lack of staff or not, it takes very little time to issue a weekly/bi weekly report to the membership telling us what the state of play is. This is just another of your excuses for a national executive that is showing the same managerial ineptitude as Royal mail management shows.

[Martin Walsh]

Fishtank and Lincox lets get things right the national union endorsed the Emergency Motion E3 at the unions annual conference on May 24 th whilst in Bournemouth.

There has been 23 working day at CWU Hqs since the carraige of the motion. In that time we had 2 weeks of intensive negotiations which prevent a dispute and prevented complusory redundnacies.

The union also had to deal with the post office bill.

The consultation will take place , that I am sure off. Lets hope when it takes place that indivduals will ensure they respond. But lets be real the union can only do so much in 23 working days.

[Lincox]

Yes Dingo 23 working days which is nearly 5 weeks. All we are asking for is for someone to place an LTB once a week or even a fortnight just to keep the membership in touch and show some respect for the membership. There is an ever growing swell of unrest within the membership and if the PEC cannot smell this, then they need to clear their nasal passages very quickly.

[fishtank]

Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:25,pm

TO: ALL BRANCHES WITH POSTAL MEMBERS

Dear Colleague,

RE: ROYAL MAIL GROUP ANNOUNCEMENT

The Union has been told by Royal Mail that the company will be announcing to all employees this week that they are experiencing serious financial difficulties, that they are developing a new business plan and that the value of Colleagueshare is likely to plummet.

The company have explained that the reasons for this are as follows:

- A harsher fall in revenue, profit and volumes than was forecast in the original business plan agreed with Government
- Slower than anticipated progress on modernisation
- A new business plan, in the process of being agreed with Government, that downgrades the future expectations of the company

In response to these announcements the Union has told Royal Mail that we have major concerns about these developments. A letter has been posted to all members’ home addresses and an advanced copy of this is attached.

In the meantime it is important that all CWU Representatives convey the following key messages to our members.

- The Union does not accept that Colleagueshare could have plummeted from a valuation of around £1400 as late as last September – to virtually nothing.
- The company must find a way to honour the previous Colleagueshare commitments and maintain the cash benefits due to our members
- The Union has major concerns around the potential impact that a new business plan may have on all existing Agreements including job security, pay rises, lump sums and the shorter working week
- We are calling for urgent meetings with the company and Government to address these issues.


We will keep you informed of developments.


Yours sincerely

Dave Ward Billy Hayes
Deputy General Secretary (P) General Secretary


That was over 3 months ago dingo.
That was when the union should have begun consulting it's members over these particular issues.
Consultation should of course be an ongoing thing.

[fishtank]

I assume the national talks have started or will start shortly.
How effective will a consultation exercise be now?

[hans solo]

piece of string anyone
all gone quiet in dingoland sorry london

[Martin Walsh]

No sorry have not gone quiet but busy meeting management to deal with members issues.

However the national talks will and have intially commenced. The consultation which you are asking for fishtank , I think the agreed aim is that it would be an agreed coonsultation process ie with Royal Mail. If this is the case then surely it would carry more weight as there would be no place to hide for either parties. However this needs to be agreed within the talks.

There are numerous other issues which need to be resolve , obviously everyone is looking into this but with varying agendas , some want to support the unions postion, some will be anti anything the union does , some will come with the view the more we can get the better but we will not strike or we will sit outside the union membership and moan , others will see what happens before they make the decison. The union at the end of the day has a judgement call to make and the test of that is not those who moan and groan the loudest but who exercises their vote on whether they support the agreement or not. If people feel so strongly they oppose something then they will vote against something. If they dont then the agreement will be voted in.

[postghost]

I think the agreed aim is that it would be an agreed coonsultation process ie with Royal Mail.

Come on FFS!!!

The "agreed aim" is to have "an agreed consultation"
Do you realise how ridiculous that sounds Dingo??

Let's face it, the CWU as a national force is dead!
Too much arsing about and failing to deliver on previous promises to it's members.

How many times are we going to read that CWU are looking to "agree" something with RM
I suspect RM top brass are laughing themselves silly at HQ.

It goes like this:

CWU seek to agree something with RM
RM eventually say "ok" just to get the union to 'do one'
RM renages on agreement (surprise surprise)
CWU then states it's looking to agree with RM a chance to agree!!!!

It's not sad anymore, it's just laughable!

[TrueBlueTerrier]

The consultation which you are asking for fishtank , I think the agreed aim is that it would be an agreed consultation process ie with Royal Mail. If this is the case then surely it would carry more weight as there would be no place to hide for either parties. .

Well in my mind a joint consultation would carry LESS weight. The CWU is there for its members and consultation by committee is the worst thing possible in my mind.

I can see it now.

CWU - Our members seem concerned with institutional B&H can we include that in our consultation paper.
RM - Sorry we can't call it that it will upset the Managers and CMA members. Lets call it stronger than acceptable management style. Also we can't have an official document that even gives a nod towards Corporate failings in this field so we'll have to localise it.

All of a sudden a question which I think members would want asked:

Do you think that a B&H culture is both prevalent and endemic within Royal Mail - answer Yes or No.

turns into:

Have you been subject to management style that is more forceful than you are comfortable with. Answer Yes or No (if yes please give examples).

If you want a joint one with Royal Mail, fine just don't expect the questions to be as probing as members want, and don't expect to get full engagement with members.

Perhaps the solution is to have one independant consultation by the CWU and a joint one with Royal Mail.

[dvbuk55]

Have I missed something.................I was under the impression that it was the widest consultation of members...............has that now gone by the wayside and it's back to big brother knows best routine now that the people issues in London have been adressed. I might be wrong here but I am absolutely sure the union promised a members consultation. There seem to be a lot of aims but like me, I aim for the bowl but the wife says I keep p*ssing on the floor and it looks like the union aims are achieving the same result.

[fishtank]

The consultation which you are asking for fishtank , I think the agreed aim is that it would be an agreed coonsultation process ie with Royal Mail. If this is the case then surely it would carry more weight as there would be no place to hide for either parties. However this needs to be agreed within the talks.

I didn't ask for a consultation dingo....the union promised it's members one.

Consultation and Communications with all CWU Members

The Postal Executive has also agreed to embark on our biggest ever consultation exercise with all CWU members. This will utilise the full range of communication tools, be supported by our Communications Department alongside the engagement of an external communications company.
This will provide a genuine opportunity for two-way communications that will directly engage CWU members and gain support for our policy. We recognise there is work to do and we are determined to get underneath some of the problems CWU members are experiencing at local level due to unreasonable pressure from managers.

When did that turn into a Royal Mail/cwu consultation?
Just what are you frightened of finding out?
Carry more weight?...What....like.....Have Your Say?
Has the union finally decided to move into Victoria Embankment?
If this gets the go-ahead it will be a shameful day for the CWU.

[dvbuk55]

Well it now looks like the CWU is representing Royal Mail, either that or they are sitting in a room consulting with themselves.



People seem to think that we are blinkered, don't read the blurb put out or don't understand it................mind we should have known what the outcome would be considering it was to be run by the "communications department"......................lets face it

[Lincox]

Fish, I think Dingo is assuming that the external communications company is Royal Mail.
You have to read so deeply into any communication that is put forward by the PEC . I am left wondering whether the officers of this union actually have any memory of what they have written or agreed. They are failing us with every week that goes by. No wonder the membership have completely lost faith in anything they do.