London Mail Centre Dispute : Resolution

[fishtank]

OK! But where is the pay rise amongst non-unionised workforces? If our union is wrong how are we to change it? It is the same question I put forward for debate on this forum time and time again.

It's a pointless question.
Change requires a willingness to change.
This union is so steeped in antiquated democratic process that change cannot be driven from the bottom...it has to come from a willingness to change from the very people with most to lose from change....or so they think.
Without real change and a complete change in priorities the union will continue to lose any sense of relevancy to the majority of the membership,the apathy will grow,the drift away of the membership will continue and the union will grow weaker and weaker.
The present course is unsustainable but no-one wants to rock the boat in case they are cast adrift.

[Martin Walsh]

The level of inner London and outer London only bearly recognises the extra cost associated in working in London. Every independent report on regional cost of living indicatess London is more expensive. This is not just on council tax , but everything from Child care , hair dressers costs to travel. Croner the leading independent regional cost of living reviews conclude it as well and they samples almost every product on regional compassion.

Now I have no doubt there are places around the UK where house prices and council tax is more expensive than some parts of London but that is not the only costs that London weighting takes account off. Equally there are lots other places where house prices are still quite low.

London weighting goes up in line with the percentage of the pay rise so a 1% increase in the pay rise will increase London weighting by 1%.

London Weighting actually protects national pay bargining. There really is no other solution,

[fishtank]

How many members who work in Greater London and receive the full London Weighting actually live in the Greater London area?
Not many i would imagine unless their second name is Abramovich.
Anyway casualisation is the biggest threat to London Weighting not members bitching about it.
I assume Angard Staffing Solutions Ltd was reactivated to deal with potential industrial action in London.
Has it been de-activated?
Were there any promises contained within the London Agreement to protect against a future casualisation of the workforce after privatisation?
Something that will affect London more than any other area i would imagine....

[dvbuk55]

How many members who work in Greater London and receive the full London Weighting actually live in the Greater London area?
Not many i would imagine unless their second name is Abramovich.
Anyway casualisation is the biggest threat to London Weighting not members bitching about it.
I assume Angard Staffing Solutions Ltd was reactivated to deal with potential industrial action in London.
Has it been de-activated?
Were there any promises contained within the London Agreement to protect against a future casualisation of the workforce after privatisation?
Something that will affect London more than any other area i would imagine....

Ah! The future call for national unity again I shouldn't wonder..............London Dispute over Casualisation needs national support ...........quickly followed by a rationalisation of casualisation in London and the rest of you can swivel.

[fishtank]

In a privatised company all thoughts of the cost of living will go out the window.
If there is a recruitment and retention issue...a premium will be paid.
If there isn't and let's be honest the demographics in Greater London have changed considerably since the 1974 pay board...then it won't.
The employment market will ultimately drive the issue maybe not immediately but certainly in the long run...
Although dingo is right in one thing...it will probably spell the end of national pay bargaining.

[Martin Walsh]

Fishtank the payment is for working in London not living in London. Most Independent reports suggusts that people who work in London have the longest journeys and often the most expensive. I know by train it takes me 35 mins to travel into central London and a one day travel card cost me £19.10 per day.

Now of course a future employer may look at payments but the reality of the situration is that most national companies pay London Weighting and then what is known as a ROSE payment ( the rest of the South East ) .

Recuritment has not really effected London since the late 80s early 90s. London still has some of the highest unemploymet boroughs in the UK.

The Problem for Royal Mail up 2003 when a London Weighting strike saw a review of London Weighting was that staff were not being retained.

Of course now we have another period of mass unemployment people are no longer leaving.

No one can doubt basic pensionable pay has improved since 2003. The union has managed to do this by getting Royal Mail to pay for change. However it will depend which way you view things.

Now if you want to look at how regional pay will effect places like Burnley , Stoke , Middlesboro , Rotherham etc then that will be the price you pay if you want to rule out London weighting.

[fishtank]

I'm not arguing against London Weighting...i have no issue with it but i think you will have a struggle on your hands to justify current levels under a privatised Royal Mail.
Probably our closest comparison is BT with an arguably more skilled workforce and at least equally difficult recruitment and retention issues...

Their inner London Weighting is £3,186...around £1,500 less.

[Lincox]

No one can doubt basic pensionable pay has improved since 2003. The union has managed to do this by getting Royal Mail to pay for change. However it will depend which way you view things.

Back to the argument of basic income as against real income Dingo. Basic income increased. Real income decreased, whilst the job becomes more stressful and physically enduring. If this is what the CWU has done for us and you are trying to gain some kind of praise for this, then perhaps you should look a little closer at the truth behind the pay and conditions that we have now been lumbered with following 2010 and beyond.

[Night Tonic]

[barbario]

I live in London and my community charge is £1,600, a year how much is yours ?

£1800 for me,what's your point?

The point i was trying to make was how expensive it was to live in London.Really surprised you pay that much bunkerland,i always thought London was the most expensive place to live for community charge.

[bunkerland]

I live in London and my community charge is £1,600, a year how much is yours ?

£1800 for me,what's your point?

The point i was trying to make was how expensive it was to live in London.Really surprised you pay that much bunkerland,i always thought London was the most expensive place to live for community charge.

£1847.47 to be precise,i've a pal that lives just round the corner who pays £2500(newbuild,so current valuation was taken=higher band ) All depends on the banding for everyone of course.

I live in a town filled with holiday homes and HMO's owned by greedy absentee landlords living miles away. Most young people can't afford to live here now and indeed the trend of posties living locally is greatly decreasing. If only everyone could be satisfied with owning just one house,things would be so much better!

I don't doubt for a second that London is the most expensive place to live and has the highest average council tax bills though,i think i was just feeling grumpy when i saw your post and replied so just ignore me!

[dvbuk55]

That's one of the problems, those who live in London assume their problems are paramount and their standard of living has to be subsidised by the rest of us.
You never hear tell of those things which they have the benefit of which is denied the rest of us.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I live in London and my community charge is £1,600, a year how much is yours ?

£1800 for me,what's your point?

The point i was trying to make was how expensive it was to live in London.Really surprised you pay that much bunkerland,i always thought London was the most expensive place to live for community charge.

£1600 would put you into a Band D > £88,000 for my council and £1800 into a Band E - >£120,000 -

[rockytony67]

Can anyone help? It would be nice to know what benefit I as a London postie get that other's don't as someone who's been in the job over 25 years as a simple postman, I would love to know it feels like I'm missing out on something, and please don't bring up London weighting, many companies have that, so come on let me know I've got my benefit form ready and I'm going to claim all these benefits so don't let me down

[dvbuk55]

Can anyone help? It would be nice to know what benefit I as a London postie get that other's don't as someone who's been in the job over 25 years as a simple postman, I would love to know it feels like I'm missing out on something, and please don't bring up London weighting, many companies have that, so come on let me know I've got my benefit form ready and I'm going to claim all these benefits so don't let me down

Oh things like the underground, theatres, museums, tourists to make a few bob off overcharging on fares, the olympics, Wembley..........mostly northern teams of course so we would have to travel, you have it on your doorstep, CWU HQ, always handy to bob round and bitch, benefits aren't always monetary rocky they could be cultural............probably wasted down there really.