Strike action to defend Royal Mail jobs

[TrueBlueTerrier]

And why shouldn't he? A rebel-rousing bunch with their own agenda.

Did I confuse you, i acknowledged his actions I did not condem them.

[andy2007]

And why shouldn't he? A rebel-rousing bunch with their own agenda.

Everyone has their own agenda,every publication,every group,every party....even you NT.

Perhaps he thinks "the Broadsheets" are an exception.

[dvbuk55]

And why shouldn't he? A rebel-rousing bunch with their own agenda.

Everyone has their own agenda,every publication,every group,every party....even you NT.

Perhaps he thinks "the Broadsheets" are an exception.

Well at his age I would imagine wet sheets would be more appropriate

[Night Tonic]

'We are the union' - lot of talk no results

[BELIAL]

? A rebel-rousing bunch with their own agenda.

rebel-rousing
You don't edit the Daily Mail do you ?

[andy2007]

'We are the union' - lot of talk no results

So you're not going to join in the debate then?
You dismissed the article, because of it's source, instead of arguing against it's content. You've stated that the reason you did that, is because they're biased rebel-rousers. Yet you haven't suggested any more valid sources. Could this be, because ALL Media sources are biased, and pander to thier target audience?
That's the POINT of a debate: To take MORE THAN ONE souce, and MORE THAN ONE opinion. and discuss them, with a view to better understanding each other, and hopefully agreeing on something. Surely by now, you understand that, don't you?
Don't just dismiss articles or opinions because of their source. READ, or if in person, LISTEN to people's arguments. Then if you disagree, explain why, and keep an open mind. It's one thing to take the past into account, when deciding if someone is trustworthy or not. But quite another, to simply dismiss their opinions, without even considering them.

Now, your statement quoted above, is more of a debate starter. Because although you're right that we haven't achieved much with Strikes generally over the last few years. That's had far more to do with HQ, than people not putting enough effort in. Is that a reason to give up, and be walked over?
No. I don't think so. It IS a reason to try to do something about the problems at HQ though. For example: Proper, and TIMELY communications with the Members. Stopping them from keep falling into the same, tired old trap, of suspending Strikes, before discussions can start. I mean come on! How many times are they going to fall for the same trick?!?!?

What would YOU suggest as an alternative to Strike action?
Stern looks, and letters to the Editor of the local rag?
Much has been achieved by the more elequent articles submitted to the Press. Mostly by Roy Mayall. But for most of us, that won't be as effective.

[Tman]

[You dismissed the article, because of it's source, instead of arguing against it's content. You've stated that the reason you did that, is because they're biased rebel-rousers.

Surely you've caught on by now Andy, and realised that "journals" from SWP/WRP etc are like football fanzines and students' Rag Week mags in that they're only produced for the entertainment of the few cognoscenti who choose to read them. They're not sources of factual information, and some articles wouldn't have looked out of place in Viz.

Yet you haven't suggested any more valid sources.

What would be harder, would be to suggest a less valid source....

[borders]

'We are the union' - lot of talk no results

more rubbish from the plonker that calls himself Night Tonic.......

here are a few benefits Mr NT....

As a worker, you have a right under law to form a union, select representatives of your choice and bargain collectively with your employer. This helps balance the power that an employer has over his individual employees.

Belonging to a union gives you rights under law that you do not have as an individual. Once you have formed a union, your employer must bargain with you over your wages, hours and working conditions.

Obtaining satisfactory rates of pay. Research has shown that workers belonging to unions have better levels of wages
Protecting workers jobs, as it has been shown that union members are less likely to be dismissed.
Securing adequate work facilities
Ensuring satisfactory work conditions, this can include areas such as health and safety and equal opportunities.
Negotiating bonuses for achieving targets
Negotiating employment conditions and job descriptions

now it is pretty obvious a lot of people are pissed off with are Union at the moment and that is understandable , the door to door agrement springs to mind.
what pisses me off with people like Mr NT , is that he completely erases the history and struggle of working people. it is/ has been a struggle between the classes and we are where we are because of these struggles.
times have changed along the way,
The kind of jobs that people do and the type of industries they work in have changed . The manufacturing sector, which used to be one of the most important industries in Britain has shrunk dramatically and new sectors - like the finance and voluntary sectors - are becoming more important to the British economy.

There have also been changes to the way we work. Traditional working patterns have declined. Many people now work part-time or freelance or on short term contracts. Job insecurity is a growing problem for people at work. Many people are unemployed or work under the constant threat of redundancy.

But IN MY EYES the current economic climate makes trade unions more important than ever. People whose jobs are insecure need advice and support. They need help on contract terms, pensions and employment rights.

[borders]

this probably warrents a thread of its own and is very disturbing IMO.
by the way Mr Tman , this was sourced from the Morning Star !!

MPs take workers’ bargaining rights
Thursday 23 June 2011
Spanish MPS voted to strip the country’s workers of hard-won collective bargaining rights on Wednesday.

The vote was 169 in favour and 159 against with 20 abstentions.

The only Yes votes came from members of Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero’s Spanish Socialist Workers’ Party (PSOE).

Hundreds of trade unionists and youth activists rallied outside the parliament building after camping out overnight to protest against the latest government attack on working people’s rights.

Two rows of police vans and uniformed officers blocked access to the square in front of the central Madrid assembly.

The reforms passed on Wednesday empower bosses to ignore collective bargaining agreements achieved on a regional and sectoral level and do deals with “their” own union workers instead.

Once a contract has expired it will remain valid for 12-18 months while unions and the company try to negotiate a new one.

If an agreement is not reached by the end of that time period arbitration by a third party will kick in.

This differs from the current format which sees expired contracts as valid for an indefinite period, or until replaced by a new one.

Company-worker commissions will be charged with resolving disputes and their agreements will have the same legal weight as the collective bargaining agreement itself.

In case of industrial conflict, collective bargaining agreements at the company level will have more legal weight than those of regions or sectors in the areas of base salaries and incentives, overtime, flexible work hours and job classification.

MPs approved the regressive changes a day after the International Monetary Fund urged the PSOE government to press ahead with more job-market reforms.

It has already slashed public spending, frozen pensions, raised the retirement age and made it easier and cheaper for companies to lay people off.

Spain slipped into recession in 2008 after a real estate bubble burst and along with it a credit-fuelled consumer spending spree vanished.

The economy is growing again, although just barely, but the jobless rate has risen relentlessly, more than doubling since 2007.

The PSOE trails conservatives badly in the polls and Mr Zapatero has said he will not seek a third term in general elections that must be called by March 2012.

foreigneditor@peoples-press.com

[Tman]

What, that internationally-renowned beacon of honest factual and unbiased reporting, widely read wherever the workers and intelligensia gather to discuss deeply philosophical matters regarding the world of work and the Human Condition....that Morning Star....?

Shame that winker Murdoch doesn't take it over....be no more factual that it is now, but it would have a higher circulation...

[borders]

What, that internationally-renowned beacon of honest factual and unbiased reporting, widely read wherever the workers and intelligensia gather to discuss deeply philosophical matters regarding the world of work and the Human Condition....that Morning Star....?

Shame that winker Murdoch doesn't take it over....be no more factual that it is now, but it would have a higher circulation...

Just like the old days !!, how about a comment on the content ?

[Tman]

OK, it's crap. Worse than that, it's poorly written, factually incorrect crap produced for the ever-dwindling number of believers....

[borders]

OK, it's crap. Worse than that, it's poorly written, factually incorrect crap produced for the ever-dwindling number of believers....

too predictable ....
i would imagine the vote is correct ?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Well I was going to exercise my freedom and right to ignore the counter arguments against the article from TMan and Night Tonic but they saved me the job.

[Tman]

As these threads tend to follow well-worn paths, I was just thinking it was about time we had the usual less-than-erudite and irrelevant comments by the usual suspects....one down, two to go, then....