London Dispute Update

[fishtank]

Those of you who have and now complain about the revison should question your role. Did you do enough to stop the revision being introduced ? Its no good getting behind a keyboard and putting Royal Mail to right if you did not do enough to stop a s**t revison coming into your office. Stop moaning , they has been no executive action and you could have used the IR framework and no where in the agreement does it say there is an agreement to 100BSI.

If that was aimed in my direction i can tell you i'm not complaining about our revision.
We got exactly what we wanted from our revision,more jobs,a progression towards full-time working,better attendance patterns and weight off the shoulder....the fact that it has cost money and produced no savings is of no concern to me.
Unfortunately it has had a knock on effect in other offices and your trumpeting of the integrated revisions grinding to a halt shows a complete lack of understanding.
They have ground to a halt purely because they are too costly and the union seems to be OK with this but they have been replaced by a watered down version that gives members nothing and Royal Mail the savings they thought they would get with full works.
How many offices have moved to the 39hr week dingo and had the full £1000...how long will the rest have to wait?....will there be a cut off point where the union decides these members have waited long enough?

[DGP1]

The revision in my office was binned because it put hours in..................and we've been told that we're not getting a revision We put up a fight over our last revision but that was mostly because our local rep did all the fighting with no help (at least that's the way it appeared) from any of the area boys.

We fought and got screwed and London didn't say a word, they where happy with their 4 day weeks and didn't want to be bothered with small offices in NI so the question is 'Why should we support London?' and only by answering that question to the satisfaction of all those people who've been roundly done over outside London will you get the support of the majority.

[thelastpostie]

The revision in my office was binned because it put hours in..................and we've been told that we're not getting a revision We put up a fight over our last revision but that was mostly because our local rep did all the fighting with no help (at least that's the way it appeared) from any of the area boys.

We fought and got screwed and London didn't say a word, they where happy with their 4 day weeks and didn't want to be bothered with small offices in NI so the question is 'Why should we support London?' and only by answering that question to the satisfaction of all those people who've been roundly done over outside London will you get the support of the majority.

DGP1, in saying "We fought and got screwed and London didnt say a word they were happy with their 4 day weeks and didnt want to be bothered with small offices in NI so the question is 'Why should we support London?" Can you tell me exactly what you expected "London" to do?

So its London's fault that your local rep did all the fighting with no help, as you saw it, from the "area boys"? Did your local rep progress the matter through the IR Framework? Why did your office, in your opinion, get no support from your area reps? Did your Div Reps get involved at all? In light of this, what exactly did you expect "London" to do? I detect an element of "tall poppy syndrome" in what your'e saying.

Not all offices in London work 4 day weeks, and where they do, they were hard fought for and negotiated locally with management. Progressed through the IR Framework with support from area reps and ultimately Div Reps where they were unable to reach agreement. I can only infer from what you say that theres nothing ""London" could say to satisfy, in your words, "the people who've been roundly done over"?

[fishtank]

By using the phrase "tall poppy syndrome" do you mean that DGP is somehow jealous of London's terms and conditions.
Hell of a way to engage the membership outside the M25 lastpostie.
There seems to be two different arguments coming out of London.

"We don't have it any better than you".
"Yes we do but it's your fault and your all just jealous anyway".

Which is it?

[dvbuk55]

By using the phrase "tall poppy syndrome" do you mean that DGP is somehow jealous of London's terms and conditions.
Hell of a way to engage the membership outside the M25 lastpostie.
There seems to be two different arguments coming out of London.

"We don't have it any better than you".
"Yes we do but it's your fault and your all just jealous anyway".

Which is it?

How many guesses do we get?

[DGP1]

The revision in my office was binned because it put hours in..................and we've been told that we're not getting a revision We put up a fight over our last revision but that was mostly because our local rep did all the fighting with no help (at least that's the way it appeared) from any of the area boys.

We fought and got screwed and London didn't say a word, they where happy with their 4 day weeks and didn't want to be bothered with small offices in NI so the question is 'Why should we support London?' and only by answering that question to the satisfaction of all those people who've been roundly done over outside London will you get the support of the majority.

DGP1, in saying "We fought and got screwed and London didnt say a word they were happy with their 4 day weeks and didnt want to be bothered with small offices in NI so the question is 'Why should we support London?" Can you tell me exactly what you expected "London" to do?

So its London's fault that your local rep did all the fighting with no help, as you saw it, from the "area boys"? Did your local rep progress the matter through the IR Framework? Why did your office, in your opinion, get no support from your area reps? Did your Div Reps get involved at all? In light of this, what exactly did you expect "London" to do? I detect an element of "tall poppy syndrome" in what your'e saying.

Not all offices in London work 4 day weeks, and where they do, they were hard fought for and negotiated locally with management. Progressed through the IR Framework with support from area reps and ultimately Div Reps where they were unable to reach agreement. I can only infer from what you say that theres nothing ""London" could say to satisfy, in your words, "the people who've been roundly done over"?

IR framework was used right up to a strike..............but nobody came to help us (plenty came down to scab but that's another thing), London didn't say 'We'll help our small DOs who are being done over' neither did they say much when other MCs where being closed up and down the country so, you tell me, why should we even care about what's happening in London?? All that's happening in London is what's been happening all over the country but because they haven't suffered in the past years they're going to suffer their hit all at once.

It's going to be very difficult to convince all those outside London that it's worth losing more money when they'll get nothing in return.

[DGP1]

By using the phrase "tall poppy syndrome" do you mean that DGP is somehow jealous of London's terms and conditions.
Hell of a way to engage the membership outside the M25 lastpostie.
There seems to be two different arguments coming out of London.

"We don't have it any better than you".
"Yes we do but it's your fault and your all just jealous anyway".

Which is it?

I'm not jealous, just think that now all that's been happening all over the country is now happening in London they expect all of us to support them when they don't appear to have supported us.

[thelastpostie]

By using the phrase "tall poppy syndrome" do you mean that DGP is somehow jealous of London's terms and conditions.
Hell of a way to engage the membership outside the M25 lastpostie.
There seems to be two different arguments coming out of London.

"We don't have it any better than you".
"Yes we do but it's your fault and your all just jealous anyway".

Which is it?

Thats not what i'm saying at all FT, but I do get an impression from some outside of London, that because we're doing it, whatever it may be, and London isnt. That in of it self warrants London to not be deserving of support? The street are not paved with gold down here, we're all going through it, accepted, some to a greater extent than others. But if a particular office/area have attractive duty structures, they were negotiated and agreed with management.

[dvbuk55]

I'm just wondering how many pages/posts are going to dedicated to this topic How many man hours at conference on discussing the topic What proportion of the entire workforce is affected, not potentially but actually

[parky]

I'm just wondering how many pages/posts are going to dedicated to this topic How many man hours at conference on discussing the topic What proportion of the entire workforce is affected, not potentially but actually

Thats great!!! another question that will never be answered... because it doesnt suit the picture there painting. nice one dv

[thelastpostie]

The revision in my office was binned because it put hours in..................and we've been told that we're not getting a revision We put up a fight over our last revision but that was mostly because our local rep did all the fighting with no help (at least that's the way it appeared) from any of the area boys.

We fought and got screwed and London didn't say a word, they where happy with their 4 day weeks and didn't want to be bothered with small offices in NI so the question is 'Why should we support London?' and only by answering that question to the satisfaction of all those people who've been roundly done over outside London will you get the support of the majority.

DGP1, in saying "We fought and got screwed and London didnt say a word they were happy with their 4 day weeks and didnt want to be bothered with small offices in NI so the question is 'Why should we support London?" Can you tell me exactly what you expected "London" to do?

So its London's fault that your local rep did all the fighting with no help, as you saw it, from the "area boys"? Did your local rep progress the matter through the IR Framework? Why did your office, in your opinion, get no support from your area reps? Did your Div Reps get involved at all? In light of this, what exactly did you expect "London" to do? I detect an element of "tall poppy syndrome" in what your'e saying.

Not all offices in London work 4 day weeks, and where they do, they were hard fought for and negotiated locally with management. Progressed through the IR Framework with support from area reps and ultimately Div Reps where they were unable to reach agreement. I can only infer from what you say that theres nothing ""London" could say to satisfy, in your words, "the people who've been roundly done over"?

IR framework was used right up to a strike..............but nobody came to help us (plenty came down to scab but that's another thing), London didn't say 'We'll help our small DOs who are being done over' neither did they say much when other MCs where being closed up and down the country so, you tell me, why should we even care about what's happening in London?? All that's happening in London is what's been happening all over the country but because they haven't suffered in the past years they're going to suffer their hit all at once.

It's going to be very difficult to convince all those outside London that it's worth losing more money when they'll get nothing in return.

Still don't know what you expected London to do? Help your small DO'S in what way? As for MC' closures,London has seen at least half a dozen MC's close already, it has been pointed out numerous times that its the people issues that arent being dealt with in a fair and equitable manner that is the main bone of contention.
We'll just have to agree to disagree, but I respect your honesty.

[fishtank]

Thats not what i'm saying at all FT, but I do get an impression from some outside of London, that because we're doing it, whatever it may be, and London isnt. That in of it self warrants London to not be deserving of support? The street are not paved with gold down here, we're all going through it, accepted, some to a greater extent than others. But if a particular office/area have attractive duty structures, they were negotiated and agreed with management.

I don't have an issue with anybody's attendance patterns or terms and conditions...although local agreements are not my thing generally.
We choose ours and in the main,speaking as an office we are quite happy with them.
My issue is that constantly blaming the effects of attacks by Royal Mail on other areas...on weak members has exactly the same effect as members constantly bitching about London's T&C's.
It's divisive and quite frankly...bollocks.
Other areas have been attacked and the response from HQ(not London) has been underwhelming to say the least.
The fact that the members outside the M25 tie HQ and London together is the downside to having them on your doorstep....but there are upsides to that as well.

[DGP1]

The simple thing is that we feel that we're being ignored and London gets everything and until that (reality or perception) is rectified then support will be negligible from around the country.

[thelastpostie]

Thats not what i'm saying at all FT, but I do get an impression from some outside of London, that because we're doing it, whatever it may be, and London isnt. That in of it self warrants London to not be deserving of support? The street are not paved with gold down here, we're all going through it, accepted, some to a greater extent than others. But if a particular office/area have attractive duty structures, they were negotiated and agreed with management.

I don't have an issue with anybody's attendance patterns or terms and conditions...although local agreements are not my thing generally.
We choose ours and in the main,speaking as an office we are quite happy with them.
My issue is that constantly blaming the effects of attacks by Royal Mail on other areas...on weak members has exactly the same effect as members constantly bitching about London's T&C's.
It's divisive and quite frankly...bollocks.
Other areas have been attacked and the response from HQ(not London) has been underwhelming to say the least.
The fact that the members outside the M25 tie HQ and London together is the downside to having them on your doorstep....but there are upsides to that as well.

You make some valid points FT, The blame for Royal Mail attacks lies firmly with Royal Mail and I dont get the impression that its being blamed on ther area's. neither do I think London's constantly bitching about their T&C's. My experience Of Union HQ is that they never particularly had much time for London and going there wasnt much different from going to 148 Old St. But then, maybe in because i'm a Londoner? (doing the Lambeth Walk in my Pearly King outfight)

[DGP1]

Are you a real Londoner.................like Dick Van Dyke