London Dispute Update

[wandle]

I think that theirs more to factor in to the equasion that the time the train takes to get there

True. But I still think 90mins is a wild distortion and RM will use the above to the union

[clashcityrocker]

The 04.28 from East Croydon to Feltham takes 1hr 15 minutes and that doesn't include getting to the train station from the house or getting from the train station to the MC.
But like the man says - it really isn't about train timetables.

[drb]

I noticed the date,(Wandle), on your train timetable. It says May. What about the winter months? Train delays due to bad weather. The employer is hardly sympathetic towards its employees now in regards to bad weather. The issue of travel is only one element in regards to mail center closures and compulsory redundancies. From what has happened to other closures the MTFS 2 was implemented and the people went with the work. Why not in this instance?

[fishtank]

From what has happened to other closures the MTFS 2 was implemented and the people went with the work. Why not in this instance?

Isn't that the crux of Royal Mails argument?
You can't follow the work if there isn't any to follow.
I'm not saying there isn't...i have no idea whether London is overstaffed for the work they have but that is their argument.

[drb]

The work is there,as it is everywhere. Their arguments are flawed on every issue in terms of volume. Its not the volume of mail,it is the revenue. Yes the shape of mail has changed,no doubt about that. However the volume is there.

[dvbuk55]

Has nobody got a car? Our DO is no more than a 1 minute walk from the railway station but I don't know of anyone who catches the train and only 1 person who uses the bus. Wandle is right, the facts put forward in argument must be accurate, factual and relevant. If there's a bit of gilding the lily, which lets face it, is not unknown and the arguments can be refuted by RM then the case is lost. One of the most fundamental issues to be proven is the ratio of work to workforce.

[bumble25]

As a result of the massive yes vote...

In which only 54% of members voted...

The main reason for a lower return was the short time span involved. Ballot papers were sent out on Friday 13 May.
Most members recieved them on Saturday 14 or Monday 16 May. The Ballot closed at 0900 on Monday 23 May.
So members only had 5 or 6 days to return them. Usually a ballot would run for 3 weeks.
I'm guessing this one was conducted quickly so that there would be a result in time for the start of CWU Conference on 23 May,
so that delegates from all Postal Branches could decide on national support. And also as RM were proposing to start moving work on 6 June.

its a fact that most people eligible to vote in any postal ballot do so within 3 days.

People couldnt be arsed to vote cause they know CWU are full of s*** and lie to their members

cwu are full of s*** and lie to their members yeah of coarse unlike royal mail management who are honest ,trustworthy and always tell the truth

[Cut Off King]

Looks like we have another one on here

[drb]

I still for the life of me refuse to believe the business on "work declining". I have never bought into this. Mondays and Tuesdays only,and thats because the pipeline has altered. I am pretty sure that the offices who "raised their head above the parapet" in 2009,(London), are being targeted here,plain and simple. Certain management have not forgotten.

We can argue about trains and,( phantom) falling mail volume figures all we want. However the truth is staring at us in the face. Are we backing them? Are we going to touch their work? ( and disgracefully not on overtime).

Simple question..simple answer?

[fishtank]

I am pretty sure that the offices who "raised their head above the parapet" in 2009,(London), are being targeted here,plain and simple. Certain management have not forgotten.

If that was the case surely they would have implemented the revisions in London first...not last...it would have been the perfect opportunity for revenge.
London is not being "punished" drb,they are being asked to go through exactly the same as any other area.
Now what it has done is led to a higher level of displaced members than other areas and that is where the issue is.
How can those displaced members best be protected.
Are they going to be forced out of the business?
Will HQ and the membership allow this to happen?
These are the questions we need to focus on not the trumpeting of certain areas as special cases.

[drb]

I hope your right Fishtank, however there is evidence in what I am stating,(RE Oxford MC for example), I promise you. The question is still there....back em?

[silly suffolk]

I hope your right Fishtank, however there is evidence in what I am stating,(RE Oxford MC for example), I promise you. The question is still there....back em?

back em 100%. but the materialistic buggers will see it as an oppurtunity to do docket, managers will get a feather in their cap if they sneak work in even though their up for the boot soon. london goe's down ,we all go down. its now or never. a fight to the death. better to die standing up than cowering in the corner.

[fishtank]

The question is still there....back em?

That's not a question for me drb.
I will always back members over management no matter the merits of the case but i am not the membership.
I think they have still to be convinced.
Hopefully HQ will get the finger out and start the consultation period as quickly as possible.

[hatetheboss]

The trouble we have Drb is that the hard core union members are a minority and trying to convince the rest is going to be a difficult job. You know the ones "they will do it anyway" then when its done they are the first to moan.

[wandle]

I noticed the date,(Wandle), on your train timetable. It says May. What about the winter months? Train delays due to bad weather. The employer is hardly sympathetic towards its employees now in regards to bad weather. The issue of travel is only one element in regards to mail center closures and compulsory redundancies. From what has happened to other closures the MTFS 2 was implemented and the people went with the work. Why not in this instance?

Going back to Dingo's argument, he was concerned about work being moved to Jubilee (i.e. Feltham) and the people in South London being asked to 'follow the work' !! The red herring is that he says the majority of those staff live in Croydon, and then quotes a 90min journey time from there to Jubilee. With all due respect, Royal Mail are asking staff to re-locate from a building in Battersea, South London to an MC that has vacancies, in a building in Feltham. Where those people are currently living is not something RM can be expected to account for in offering an alternative place of work. The best they can do is offer jobs at the nearest MC to the one being closed.

When given a chance to 'follow the work', it's always likely that some will face a longer journey to work. Some may be lucky and find the new location is actually closer to where they live than the old one. Others may even find that a longer distance to the alternative MC in terms of mileage may actually involve a shorter journey time, e.g. because the road journey to the new location is less traffic-congested, or is on a more direct train or bus route.

As regards train delays in the winter months: if I was using public transport, and was late because the trains were not running to time, and there is / was no earlier scheduled service I could catch, I would laugh at a DOM trying to pull me for late attendance. If he insisted on being a knob, I'd get the union involved and ask him how - short of going to the depot and driving the train myself - I could be blamed for not making it in on time when the first train of the day was late or cancelled