Non Culpable Inefficiency

[Talell12]

As far as i'm aware NCI only applies in POL not in RML...i could be wrong though.

Well... I found it on RML section of the intranet, however I could be wrong, and want to be.

[NumptyBumpty]

NCI can apply to anyone, it's a formal structure for getting rid of someone who isn't capable of doing a job - it's purpose, like most of these procedures is to protect RM from unfair dismissal tribunals. Very difficult to get to the end of the process as improvement will result in being removed from the process. The business would also be required to find a more appropriate job to the skills of the individual as well, and then show they aren't capable of that. Takes a very long time.

You've got to be really bad at your job to leave via this route.

[stokes11eg]

NCI can apply to anyone, it's a formal structure for getting rid of someone who isn't capable of doing a job - it's purpose, like most of these procedures is to protect RM from unfair dismissal tribunals. Very difficult to get to the end of the process as improvement will result in being removed from the process. The business would also be required to find a more appropriate job to the skills of the individual as well, and then show they aren't capable of that. Takes a very long time.

You've got to be really bad at your job to leave via this route.

MMM--seeems strange to me that folks wqho have managed to do the job well until the 'changes' are now being deemed useless! Going back to the old days, you were assessed regularly on all fronts for 6 weeks, (you know you were on trial) and if you didn't measure up, out you went! Just another way of getting rid of full time staff---

[superteamu10]

NCI can apply to anyone, it's a formal structure for getting rid of someone who isn't capable of doing a job - it's purpose, like most of these procedures is to protect RM from unfair dismissal tribunals. Very difficult to get to the end of the process as improvement will result in being removed from the process. The business would also be required to find a more appropriate job to the skills of the individual as well, and then show they aren't capable of that. Takes a very long time.

You've got to be really bad at your job to leave via this route.

MMM--seeems strange to me that folks wqho have managed to do the job well until the 'changes' are now being deemed useless! Going back to the old days, you were assessed regularly on all fronts for 6 weeks, (you know you were on trial) and if you didn't measure up, out you went! Just another way of getting rid of full time staff---

I have to agree that it looks like they are exploring all ways to get rid of people. I have been in RM for 18 years and can't remember anybody being so bad that they were sacked or moved somewhere else. Many have left because they just didn't enjoy, but that is different to not being good enough.

I don't believe you would find many people who were so far behind everybody else. It's an obvious ploy with our DOM to get rid of people who are doing there job properly and standing up to her.
Unfortunately most of the office are wimps and selfish and do the usual thing of not taking breaks, taking their cars and coming in early.
This of course leaves the minority to be left to get bullied.
But like I have said to my DOM, if she arranges an independant fair throughtput test for the whole office, then I am more than happy to do it as I know I won't be near the bottom.

The thing is though,as there are is no agreement for a throughput, only the 1 minute test could be done and I think most people would get close enough to the 25 as they did last year in our office.
They realise they can't get rid of people this way, so they are thinking of another way.

[fishtank]

I honestly do not think this ever has been used or could be used in Royal Mail Letters.
We have agreed procedures for dealing with performance issues and a procedure like this ignores all of them.
That would not sit well with any Employment Tribunal...rather than as Numpty says protecting Royal Mail against unfair dismissal cases,this document would in fact increase their exposure if it was used to supplant collective agreements.
It is in my opinion...an empty threat and should be treated as such.

[clashcityrocker]

AN IRISH postman has won a landmark legal battle with bosses in Australia after he was suspended from work for being too fat.

Dubliner Richard O'Brien tipped the scales at 27 stone when ordered to take time off from his job at a Sydney sorting office in June.

Bosses refused to pay the 53-year-old - dubbed Postman Fat - during his enforced absence and warned he faced the sack unless he lost at least five stone.

But Mr O'Brien, who emigrated to Australia more than 20 years ago, had the decision overturned this week after an employment court ruled his employers guilty of discrimination.

Mr O'Brien said: "This is excellent news. I just want to go back to work.

"I might be overweight, but I know I can do the job. I'll pass any fitness test they want to give me."

Mr O'Brien, who puts his problems down to a fondness for cheese and salami, was put on unpaid sick leave under a controversial policy introduced by his employers, Australia Post, to improve workplace fitness.

He managed to lose almost three stone during his first seven weeks off work by attending daily aerobics classes and substituting sliced beetroot for his beloved salami.

His union then took his case to an employment court, arguing that his treatment represented the thin edge of a very unfair wedge affecting hundreds of other workers.

They claimed the decision to suspend Mr O'Brien threatened workers with common medical conditions such as diabetes and varicose veins, who risked being thrown out of work.

In a ruling handed down by the New South Wales Industrial Relations Commission, Australia Post was ordered to take O'Brien back on condition he submit to a second medical.

The union plans to take up the cases of more than 250 other workers forced to take sick leave by Australia Post.

[stokes11eg]

And well done to the Aussie union, for taking up the cudgels--(do they have ATOS out there?)

[stokes11eg]

Has anyone heard of this procedure before?

Found it randomly whilst casually browsing the intranet, and I'm pretty sure I haven't seen that before.

Took a copy of everything I could find on it, if anyone is interested.

t escalates to the level of sacking people on the grounds of "non culpable inefficiency" because their skills no longer fit the business ...
Think you will find this sums up what it is really all about!

[Thorby Bislam]

I was threatened with NCI last year. Then my medical condition was diagnosed. NCI was never mentioned again.

[stokes11eg]

I was threatened with NCI last year. Then my medical condition was diagnosed. NCI was never mentioned again.

Good for you!

[Throgg]

The thing is though,as there are is no agreement for a throughput, only the 1 minute test could be done and I think most people would get close enough to the 25 as they did last year in our office.
They realise they can't get rid of people this way, so they are thinking of another way.

Our DOM had a meeting with us on Friday, claiming that the CWU agreed to a throughput of 22.5 letters per minute in April 2010. We have no office rep, but we have been in contact with our area rep and he has confirmed that our DOM is correct. this is the first time any of us in the office have heard this.

Any comments?

[superteamu10]

The thing is though,as there are is no agreement for a throughput, only the 1 minute test could be done and I think most people would get close enough to the 25 as they did last year in our office.
They realise they can't get rid of people this way, so they are thinking of another way.

Our DOM had a meeting with us on Friday, claiming that the CWU agreed to a throughput of 22.5 letters per minute in April 2010. We have no office rep, but we have been in contact with our area rep and he has confirmed that our DOM is correct. this is the first time any of us in the office have heard this.

Any comments?

If that is the case, then the whole office would be sacked as common sense would suggest that with D2D'S and flat etc you wouldn't get anywhere near that.
I think it would be more like 14.

[fishtank]

Our DOM had a meeting with us on Friday, claiming that the CWU agreed to a throughput of 22.5 letters per minute in April 2010. We have no office rep, but we have been in contact with our area rep and he has confirmed that our DOM is correct. this is the first time any of us in the office have heard this.

Any comments?

Yes...your Area Rep is mistaken.
Throughput rates are not individual performance standards they are resourcing figures but even if they were performance standards 22.5 would only be achievable by superman on amphetamines.
The current throughput rates used by the IWT are between 11.5 and 13.5 depending on circumstances.

[superteamu10]

Fishtank, that's sounds much more realistic, but is there any document to support those figures?

[Throgg]

Our DOM had a meeting with us on Friday, claiming that the CWU agreed to a throughput of 22.5 letters per minute in April 2010. We have no office rep, but we have been in contact with our area rep and he has confirmed that our DOM is correct. this is the first time any of us in the office have heard this.

Any comments?

Yes...your Area Rep is mistaken.
Throughput rates are not individual performance standards they are resourcing figures but even if they were performance standards 22.5 would only be achievable by superman on amphetamines.
The current throughput rates used by the IWT are between 11.5 and 13.5 depending on circumstances

So the current throughput claimed by RM via the IWT should be 11.5 (from putting the first letter in your frame until walking out the door having tied up), am i correct?

Was this IWT figure agreed by the union last year?

Are you a rep FT and if so would you mind if i sent you a PM, i need some advice on an another matter?