Big call for the Postal Executive

[mailmonkey]

Dingo wrote:

However the choice is even more stark as if you vote no then you are accepting that Royal Mail can introduce their new buisness plan without agreement

Last time we voted yes to IA and this is what happened anyway.

I wouldn't vote yes to IA unless I KNEW EXACTLY what the union were pushing for. The last round of IA and associated talks was a pisstake, none of the real issues got tackled, the B&H endemic in the business, the punitive sickness system, unachieveble workloads etc etc.

The union seem incapable of seeing RM "agreements" for the worthless vaguely worded ambiguous bits of tat they really are.

[Martin Walsh]

So Mail monkey do you think we are better without an agreement ? Do you really believe this ? Royal Mail believe there is no fight left in the CWU , maybe they are right but do you really believe that Royal Mail will not be rubbing their hands in joy that they have at long last got a workforce which wont resist their plans and will not stand up for itself.

Now I know the members I speak to and have meetings dont want a strike but they also know if they show any weakness to Royal Mail then Royal Mail will attack them like never before. You really think if the BTA agreement was not reached that you would be having a better time now ?

[mailmonkey]

No, I think that the Union was very very misguided in agreeing to BTA in the first place.

As soon as the first documents appeared on this site may of us immediately saw the vague wording and saw the potential for RM to use the agreement in their favour.

There was talk of the Agreement having to be honoured in word and in spirit, all working together, no more them and us.

In fact the agreement allowed RM management to make workloads less achievable, and step up the B&H.

And just a few weeks ago we had div and area reps signing off our revision, AGAINST the wishes of our local rep who refused to sign it off. Are the area and div reps about to come apologising to our office now and tell us the revision is unworkable? What about al these offices where unachievable revisions have already been bullied in by area/div reps, or RM management.

I'm sorry this is not very coherent dingo.

[randompostman]

So Mail monkey do you think we are better without an agreement ?

I can’t speak any other office but in our office we would be a damn site better off without the agreements that we have been getting for the last six years brokered by the Union bosses and the company bosses! They have done little for the OPG whilst both sets of bosses have done very nicely out of it and the lazy careerist’s have not had to do what they ask us to do.

Royal Mail believe there is no fight left in the CWU , maybe they are right but do you really believe that Royal Mail will not be rubbing their hands in joy that they have at long last got a workforce which wont resist their plans and will not stand up for itself.

There may be little fight left in the membership? As well as ourselves as OPGs for letting the Union bosses do such a crap job the largest portion of blame must go to the CWU bosses who have continued to back its own membership into a corner with no way out after requesting us to sacrifice for what both sets of bosses want rather than finding out what the membership want and staying true to those wishes.

Now I know the members I speak to and have meetings dont want a strike but they also know if they show any weakness to Royal Mail then Royal Mail will attack them like never before. You really think if the BTA agreement was not reached that you would be having a better time now ?

The same words used every time we are expected to go out! Quite meaningless when we continue to give the employer most of what they want anyway.

I will vote for IA every time and support it, but it has not been nor will ever be because of CWU HQ but my fellow workers that I do so.

[hans solo]

So Mail monkey do you think we are better without an agreement ? Do you really believe this ? Royal Mail believe there is no fight left in the CWU , maybe they are right but do you really believe that Royal Mail will not be rubbing their hands in joy that they have at long last got a workforce which wont resist their plans and will not stand up for itself.

Now I know the members I speak to and have meetings dont want a strike but they also know if they show any weakness to Royal Mail then Royal Mail will attack them like never before. You really think if the BTA agreement was not reached that you would be having a better time now ?

no agreed we do need agreements but legally binding ones not agreements rm rip up or tweak at their whim
the b+h which started the ia last time has not been addressed or sorted at any level
the attendance procedure was to be reviewed due to stage warning being issued regardless of reason of abscence
this has also been dismissed or neglected so mailmonkey has a point
there is much the union could do with the breaking of agreements etc etc take rm to court for b+h
but the biggie for me is why they dont take rm and govmt to court to force them to pay in the money they owe pension fund they absconded from for last 15 yrs payment hol my ar*e

[dvbuk55]

So Mail monkey do you think we are better without an agreement ? Do you really believe this ? Royal Mail believe there is no fight left in the CWU , maybe they are right but do you really believe that Royal Mail will not be rubbing their hands in joy that they have at long last got a workforce which wont resist their plans and will not stand up for itself.

Now I know the members I speak to and have meetings dont want a strike but they also know if they show any weakness to Royal Mail then Royal Mail will attack them like never before. You really think if the BTA agreement was not reached that you would be having a better time now ?

The members you speak to dingo are DIRECTLY threatened by RMs stance, it's going to be difficult to persuade others of the the threat. The workforce stood up for itself in 2009, only to be sold down the river after two days for an interim agreement, which led to this latest disaster. With or without this agreement Royal Mail has blithely followed its modernisation plan, for which the equipment had already been bought, with the collusion of the CWU. In light of the latest measures taken by RM what price is the agreement worth now?

I notice the pension issue has once again been brought to the fore...............lets not flog a dead horse.........time was when it WAS an issue but that has long gone, together with the promise of a pensions ballot. As for the argument of RPI and CPI - that is a government decision NOT a threat by Royal Mail and will happen regardless of any stance made by the membership.

[Martin Walsh]

Radom that was not the question. The question was do you really believe if the CWU had not got an agreement that Royal Mail would have stood back and not implemented a worst plan without any benefits including nothing for door to door.

Yes you might dislike the agreement , lots do , however it was voted in by the majority of members who bothered to vote. So it is an agreement and royal mail are breaking that agreement including introducing a new business plan.

Now a lot of members will hark back on issues and that is reasonable but if that clouds your judgement on what is currently being planned then that will mean that you will be oblivious to what royal mail intend to do to your jobs pensions and terms under this new business plan. Wake up before its too late or don't bother moaning when it arrives at your workplace and hits you in the face

[pickaname]

Radom that was not the question. The question was do you really believe if the CWU had not got an agreement that Royal Mail would have stood back and not implemented a worst plan without any benefits including nothing for door to door.

Yes you might dislike the agreement , lots do , however it was voted in by the majority of members who bothered to vote. So it is an agreement and royal mail are breaking that agreement including introducing a new business plan.

Now a lot of members will hark back on issues and that is reasonable but if that clouds your judgement on what is currently being planned then that will mean that you will be oblivious to what royal mail intend to do to your jobs pensions and terms under this new business plan. Wake up before its too late or don't bother moaning when it arrives at your workplace and hits you in the face

I dunno why people listen to dingo

Clearly this is the same tripe spouted last time when they tried to sell us the last agreement.

Now its gone awry they are trying to boo hoo their way out of it. Doesnt wash with most people i speak to...

Dont be fooled...both the CWU and RM are out to screw you.

[clashcityrocker]

I dunno why people listen to dingo

We "listen" to him because he provides us with a lot of useful information, especially when any info is difficult to obtain.

[fishtank]

How do you plan to get Royal Mail to honour any new agreement dingo?

This agreement has been broken...
ACAS have shown no teeth..
The same management team are in place....in fact by your own admission there are more "hawks" around now than when BTA was negotiated....
Swapping one toothless agreement for another and expecting the membership to pay for it in lost wages and poorer terms and conditions is hardly the way forward.
Royal Mail will want their pound of flesh for any new agreement...what do we get?
A reiteration of the same promises and commitments already contained in the last agreement?
And the same ultimate result.

[POSTMAN]

Any chance we can sort out the P&M agreement 1st before we move onto the next one.

[flyinmachine]

Radom that was not the question. The question was do you really believe if the CWU had not got an agreement that Royal Mail would have stood back and not implemented a worst plan without any benefits including nothing for door to door.

Its all very well talking about without the current agreement. Things would have been worse. The thing that puzzles me is why in 2009 when the strikes were in full swing. Did the union not get an agreement before everyone went back in. If an agreement had been reached before xmas. Im pretty sure it would have been nothing like the Current shambles of a deal. Which i find very amusing the royal mail are not happy with. All this could have been avoided.
I am not in the union but every strike i have supported the union. Dont know if will this time ! Royal mail must be rubbing there hands together. Hoping there will be more strikes. So the union will have to sit around the table again and get bullied into another terrible deal. To my knowledge no one gets paid for door to doors !

[hubbahubba]

How do you plan to get Royal Mail to honour any new agreement dingo?

This agreement has been broken...
ACAS have shown no teeth..
The same management team are in place....in fact by your own admission there are more "hawks" around now than when BTA was negotiated....
Swapping one toothless agreement for another and expecting the membership to pay for it in lost wages and poorer terms and conditions is hardly the way forward.
Royal Mail will want their pound of flesh for any new agreement...what do we get?
A reiteration of the same promises and commitments already contained in the last agreement?
And the same ultimate result.

Higson is on the front of the courier comic this month saying,and i quote"we are 100% commited to this agreement",so why do you keep saying they want out of it??? surely not just propaganda from the CWU to get a yes for IA?Not that i think you'd need to,because as many posters on RMC have said,the issues from 2009 are still alive and kicking,and biting us on the arse daily!

[Danelectro]

Depends what you mean by without an agreement, would that mean if we had not called off the strikes and carried on through xmas then that would have resulted in a total drift back to work and defeat?

Even if that scenario had happened,as Royal Mail brought in changes then the union would at least have the option of playing
the 'WE DID WARN YOU THIS WOULD HAPPEN' card .A card unfortunately not available now because of BT 2010.

We are where we are but Ive yet to hear anything that will pay the debt of BT2010 and rally the members for action.I hope the PEC all had their Weetabix this morning,it may be their last supper!

[pickaname]

I think rm have made it clear that ia wont change anything.
The union lost it power last time.
Rm want ia