ROYAL MAIL PUTTING PROFITS BEFORE YOUR FUTURE

[JaneM]

Dingo do you believe we are reaching the endgame, as a staunch trade unionist i fully support your stance ,however the lack of engagement with members from above has led to an overwhelming apathy and contempt for the leadership undermining the good efforts of many local ,area and divisional reps.I am sure i echo many on rmc when i wish you all the very best in your battle with the duplicitous management now in situ at royal mail.

[barbario]

Dingo,you said that the work in london hasn't been phased out yet when i know that in the Mount,work was started to be phased out in January.

[Martin Walsh]

Dingo do you believe we are reaching the endgame, as a staunch trade unionist i fully support your stance ,however the lack of engagement with members from above has led to an overwhelming apathy and contempt for the leadership undermining the good efforts of many local ,area and divisional reps.I am sure i echo many on rmc when i wish you all the very best in your battle with the duplicitous management now in situ at royal mail.

Jane I am not sure we are at the end game , yes there is and if we are truthful have always been apathy out there but I think the last dispute took a lot out of some especially those who took local action and of course some are not totally happy with the agreement.

However where I do agree with you we are at a critical phase as Royal Mail are testing this union. The agreement puts people first in particular that the overarching objective is to avoid CR however Royal Mail"s plans for London will lead to CR without a doubt.

Now Fishtank your right it wont lead to CR on day 1 but why would the union wait till it did , why would we accept Royal Mail pushing ahead with their plan if CRs were going to be the final outcome. Its like Churchill or indeed chamberlain saying that now mr Hiltler has invaded Poland and Chez Republic that we await until he attempted to take another country or even the uk before we were sure that he was going to attempt to dominate the world.

Royal Mail"s figures do not add up. This union should not stand by and wait until the first lot of members are forced out on CR before it says Royal Mail"s plans are wrong and are unacceptable.

[Martin Walsh]

Dingo,you said that the work in london hasn't been phased out yet when i know that in the Mount,work was started to be phased out in January.

Yes Royal Mail have been moving International work to HWDC however this was the result of a previous National Agreement 6 years and not in line with the London Mail Centre Review.

The Union never argued that all the work could not move to the purpose built international site in Langley however the union did argue that the packet operation should stay at the mount instead of going to an outhouse and that the peoples issues needed to be resolved.

Royal Mail moved the work and their is now a surplus of postpersons in the Mount of over 400 . This is why there is now a ballot been agreed and why we are going to meet the members in the Mount next week.

[dvbuk55]

This is what dvbuk had to say on the National Briefing which took place on the 29/3/11. He made these comments on the 31/3/11.

I am the unions worst critic because I believe they should have been more proactive in dealing with RMs duplicitous management instead of the appeasement that has been evident for a number of years. That has weakened the unions position and it is now critical that they make a stand, not over colleague shares, but over the callous way that RM have treated its workers across the land. If the CWU call a ballot I will rejoin immediately I am certain that this time it's for real, no interim agreements, no lip service to terms and conditions but a concerted attack on what has became a vicious managerial structure.

There you go the great man(woman) has spoken I'm just waiting for his mate to turn up with the fishing rod

There you go rocky - across the land - not south of watford. If the union ballot on a NATIONAL issue with benefits FOR ALL then I will rejoin the union
but a set of circumstances that has no proven merits is a non-starter.

OK thanks for clearing that up any more pearls of wisdom keep them coming dvbuk as the French say C'est la vie

Absolutely Rocky - here's a good'un, don't eat yellow snow

[fishtank]

Now Fishtank your right it wont lead to CR on day 1 but why would the union wait till it did , why would we accept Royal Mail pushing ahead with their plan if CRs were going to be the final outcome. Its like Churchill or indeed chamberlain saying that now mr Hiltler has invaded Poland and Chez Republic that we await until he attempted to take another country or even the uk before we were sure that he was going to attempt to dominate the world.

Royal Mail"s figures do not add up. This union should not stand by and wait until the first lot of members are forced out on CR before it says Royal Mail"s plans are wrong and are unacceptable.

No...I don't think it is feasible or sensible to wait until members are served with notice before making a move but i am also aware of the difficulty in conveying this message to a membership that feels let down by both this agreement and the last and a membership,especially in deliveries that feels that the problems they are facing are being largely ignored.
The very last thing i want to see dingo....is a call for Industrial Action rejected by the membership,it would in my opinion...tear this union apart and bring it to it's knees..but i am struggling to see any joined up approach to bring the membership together.
I do not want to see areas left out on their own again like 2009....that was embarrassing for the union and should not be allowed to happen again....but that's how it feels....again.

[DirtyHarry]

If that damn agreement dies, I will help shovel shyte on it during it's burial.
2010 & Beyond, did feck all to improve the postal worker's lot, and gave management yet more scope to crucify their workers.
If 2010 & Beyond does go the way it so richly deserves, the CWU must ensure that never again will it share management's nightmare vision for postal workers, and will only ever try to improve the members terms & conditions, as it always should have done.
I will say one thing about that last God-awful agreement, it amply showed just what happens when a trade union tries to be all things, to all men, and ends up being used by a cynical management set-up intent on trampling all over it's own workforce.
A workforce, who by the way, does a heck of a lot more to bring out the best of what's left of our postal service, than the current management set-up would be able to do over several millennia.

[Jimmcguinn]

Considering the times we live in I'm probably being hopelessly niave...but RM should absolutely NOT be used to make a select group of people obscenely wealthy regardless of what effect it has on others.
It should provide a service to the public and any surplus cash then invested back into the company to maintain that service.

[pokos27]

evr is probably the best option, as it wont be there for ever.

[drb]

I don't think this deal will die. There are elements of it in which the lowering volume of "post box mail" need to match the D2D. It would counter act that argument straight away.
Some say that the "work load" warrants the mail centre closures. Well we actually did a live count over a period of time. Yes the Post box mail was down. However the DIRT report figures did not match the DSA or the packets. On some days it was way way off,(meaning that the actual mail was a lot higher then the DIRT report).

What is actually wrong with the national agreement is management. The national agreement expects managers,(DSM's upwards), to build relationships. It is not going to happen. The national agreement expects to transform what is the worst industrial relationship "overnight". Many have tried,(Lord Sawyer and Richard Hooper reports for example). If this is wrong then why the decision to close Londons mail centres,(and reduce the Mount) without CWU input? Who gave the order?

The other aspect of the national agreement is "local agreements". You cannot have a local agreement without a local rep. Area reps have a tough time even covering 2 offices per week without reps. Some mail centres even have part time reps covering the whole centre. There is now a new "structure" within the CWU to "support local reps". Too little too late there. I think locally we are not supported and under equipped. This will need a major re-think on any national agreement. I also think that sitting behind a keyboard and playing the "blame game" amongst our own is counter productive. Lets use the forum to make our union pro-active rather then re-active. Ideas and solutions,(long term) please.....

[dvbuk55]

Dingo,you said that the work in london hasn't been phased out yet when i know that in the Mount,work was started to be phased out in January.

Yes Royal Mail have been moving International work to HWDC however this was the result of a previous National Agreement 6 years and not in line with the London Mail Centre Review.

The Union never argued that all the work could not move to the purpose built international site in Langley however the union did argue that the packet operation should stay at the mount instead of going to an outhouse and that the peoples issues needed to be resolved.

Royal Mail moved the work and their is now a surplus of postpersons in the Mount of over 400 . This is why there is now a ballot been agreed and why we are going to meet the members in the Mount next week.

That is exactly the point I was making, if there are 400 surplus to requirements NOW - what are they doing? I have been busy in the garden these last few days and unfortunately missed this revealing post - so the crux of the matter IS there is insufficient work to sustain the manpower and if that is the case and there are too few VRs..................then what is the alternative?