where is the fairness

[Danelectro]

To start making PT into FT you need work. At my D.O PT are 30 hours jobs prep and delivery so if they wanted to go FT you would need to reduce staffing numbers and redploy work to make 30 hour duties into 40 hour duties. We have no operational need for more staff on IPS so were do we get the work from?

In my office they want (planner and area rep) longer deliveries therefor increasing FT but at the expense of X amount
of staff,ie some on temporary contracts or last in first out basis.If you get park n loop then Royal Mail would prefer the
vans they are issuing to be used a lot longer than 3.5 hrs a day,longer deliveries less vans etc.

[Dorset Plodder]

To start making PT into FT you need work. At my D.O PT are 30 hours jobs prep and delivery so if they wanted to go FT you would need to reduce staffing numbers and redploy work to make 30 hour duties into 40 hour duties. We have no operational need for more staff on IPS so were do we get the work from?

Obviously a case of "Horses for Courses", but if your Office has been losing a steady stream of 40 Hr FTers over the past 3 years or so (which was when RM started planning their great endeavor) and has only been recruiting PTers on 20 Hrs & 22.5 Hrs. Add to that the fact that when they geo-routed the duties they suddenly "Discovered" that what RM had been saying was a 3.5 hr delivery for years was in fact more like a 4.5 or 5 hour delivery! So the Regular Postie was telling the truth. Then stick another hour of Delivery on it ,just for good measure.

When your workforce finally say, "Enough is enough, we want the length of duties sorted! And there's getting less and less of us to do ISP and Prep walks!" suddenly you've got 5 or 6 extra duties in your office.
Admittedly if your duties were the correct length, and you've not been undermanned for years, and they're not trying to add unrealistic work loads then it might be hard to justify any extra FT duties. Problem we have is the Rep is fighting for a "Proper" revision but RM don't like it because they're still looking to take more hours OUT of the Office

[POSTMAN]

To start making PT into FT you need work. At my D.O PT are 30 hours jobs prep and delivery so if they wanted to go FT you would need to reduce staffing numbers and redploy work to make 30 hour duties into 40 hour duties. We have no operational need for more staff on IPS so were do we get the work from?

In my office they want (planner and area rep) longer deliveries therefor increasing FT but at the expense of X amount
of staff,ie some on temporary contracts or last in first out basis.If you get park n loop then Royal Mail would prefer the
vans they are issuing to be used a lot longer than 3.5 hrs a day,longer deliveries less vans etc.

Ignore them for a minute what do the staff want?

[dvbuk55]

To start making PT into FT you need work. At my D.O PT are 30 hours jobs prep and delivery so if they wanted to go FT you would need to reduce staffing numbers and redploy work to make 30 hour duties into 40 hour duties. We have no operational need for more staff on IPS so were do we get the work from?

Didn't you say that you have just moved to FT from PT? Or has my old brain misfired again.....................

[dvbuk55]

To start making PT into FT you need work. At my D.O PT are 30 hours jobs prep and delivery so if they wanted to go FT you would need to reduce staffing numbers and redploy work to make 30 hour duties into 40 hour duties. We have no operational need for more staff on IPS so were do we get the work from?

In my office they want (planner and area rep) longer deliveries therefor increasing FT but at the expense of X amount
of staff,ie some on temporary contracts or last in first out basis.If you get park n loop then Royal Mail would prefer the
vans they are issuing to be used a lot longer than 3.5 hrs a day,longer deliveries less vans etc.

Ignore them for a minute what do the staff want?

A minute is all you'll get................georoute plans the delivery and 3.5 hrs? lost in the mists of time.................there will be 2 x 3.5 deliveries, Specials, Tracked and Parcels....................what you need to do is show that the delivery is not viable..............what the staff want is secondary to what 2010 and Beyond has agreed to..............you cannot maintain a 3.5 hour delivery if you have insufficient indoor work, as has been said time after time.

[Dorset Plodder]

Point taken DV. What I was trying to get across was an "Old Style Delivery" was always assumed to be a certain length i.e 3.5 hrs (We know they weren't as we delivered them) the reason we took longer was we're all a bunch of idle buggers who stop and chat...stop to roll a fag.....stop to eat a sarnie etc.

When Management were looking to add time to the duties they thought, "We'll stick a couple of hours onto that duty because it's only a 3.5 hr delivery, that'll take it up to 5.5 hrs which we think is do-able". However when they geo-routed the "Old Style Deliveries" they turned out to be longer than they'd assumed. They shouldn't have been adding anything to their delivery length at all.

When you carry out the same process across 50 odd duties (apart from the odd few that were "Easy") you suddenly discover that all your plans to combine,chop up & lengthen different duties (and save loads on your Budget to put towards your new car) are suddenly a no go. The Planner even admitted that they'd have to create 6 odd new duties and make up PTers to FT as well as recruiting more PTers to cover Reserves etc.

Suddenly the proposals are throw out, the goal posts are moved and a new set of criteria are put forward because we need to take more hours out of the office.

[dvbuk55]

Point taken DV. What I was trying to get across was an "Old Style Delivery" was always assumed to be a certain length i.e 3.5 hrs (We know they weren't as we delivered them) the reason we took longer was we're all a bunch of idle buggers who stop and chat...stop to roll a fag.....stop to eat a sarnie etc.

When Management were looking to add time to the duties they thought, "We'll stick a couple of hours onto that duty because it's only a 3.5 hr delivery, that'll take it up to 5.5 hrs which we think is do-able". However when they geo-routed the "Old Style Deliveries" they turned out to be longer than they'd assumed. They shouldn't have been adding anything to their delivery length at all.

When you carry out the same process across 50 odd duties (apart from the odd few that were "Easy") you suddenly discover that all your plans to combine,chop up & lengthen different duties (and save loads on your Budget to put towards your new car) are suddenly a no go. The Planner even admitted that they'd have to create 6 odd new duties and make up PTers to FT as well as recruiting more PTers to cover Reserves etc.

Suddenly the proposals are throw out, the goal posts are moved and a new set of criteria are put forward because we need to take more hours out of the office.

We had our geo-route last November, not exactly the optimum time BUT the overtime was horrendous and attributable to Xmas in part.......since January we have employed over 20 PTers to make up the shortfall.....................so much for planners and geo route. I was doing a walking delivery prior to the 3.5 hr criteria, which took 4 hrs BUT lo and behold it became a 3.5 hr delivery even with extra houses added................

[246chill@fsmail.net]

All walks are the same.

If all walks are the same, why is it that pro-rata workers only get part payment on households, some workers dont even do households so they get to take full advantage of job and finish, hahahahahahahahahahahahaha , sorry this always makes me laugh, braintree union insist part time workers stitched their selves up so they dont get to clip 2 hours of their rounds on mondays and tuesdays and saturdays, mind you it will all be fair soon, hahahahahahahahahaha, angel fish

[Big Daz]

To start making PT into FT you need work. At my D.O PT are 30 hours jobs prep and delivery so if they wanted to go FT you would need to reduce staffing numbers and redploy work to make 30 hour duties into 40 hour duties. We have no operational need for more staff on IPS so were do we get the work from?

Didn't you say that you have just moved to FT from PT? Or has my old brain misfired again.....................

Yes it has misfired, you have proably been working too hard.

6 vacanies 2 duties kocked out under the revision leaves four more OPGs to be found.

2 X FT have transfered/in the process of transfering (we have two vacant FT duties) 1 x 30 hour new recruit which will be a reserve 1 x 22 hour new recruit which will be a 3 day week floater (used to be a 32 hour 5 day week floater duty, duty holder left employment with RML).

One 40 hour OPG swops contracts with a 30 hour OPG (me) both are duties then became vacant and were advertised along with other two vacant FT duties. I picked up the duty that the 40 hour OPG had and she picked up my old duty as none of the other PTers wanted to move onto a different 30 duty. All are quite happy with their current duties and current contracted hours.

[dvbuk55]

To start making PT into FT you need work. At my D.O PT are 30 hours jobs prep and delivery so if they wanted to go FT you would need to reduce staffing numbers and redploy work to make 30 hour duties into 40 hour duties. We have no operational need for more staff on IPS so were do we get the work from?

Didn't you say that you have just moved to FT from PT? Or has my old brain misfired again.....................

Yes it has misfired, you have proably been working too hard.

6 vacanies 2 duties kocked out under the revision leaves four more OPGs to be found.

2 X FT have transfered/in the process of transfering (we have two vacant FT duties) 1 x 30 hour new recruit which will be a reserve 1 x 22 hour new recruit which will be a 3 day week floater (used to be a 32 hour 5 day week floater duty, duty holder left employment with RML).

One 40 hour OPG swops contracts with a 30 hour OPG (me) both are duties then became vacant and were advertised along with other two vacant FT duties. I picked up the duty that the 40 hour OPG had and she picked up my old duty as none of the other PTers wanted to move onto a different 30 duty. All are quite happy with their current duties and current contracted hours.

So I was right, you have moved to FT by sleight of hand, you cunning devil