Help needed over joining the union whilst suspended

[POSTMAN]

i work in an office, but i really dont want to give personal details away.

im going to leave the thread now, cheers for all the help.

Are we talking about the CMA union here?

[fishtank]

Are we talking about the CMA union here?

They won't represent you even if you've been a member for 20 years...

[NumptyBumpty]

I'm guessing the OP is from a similar office as myself (maybe the same office) where we are all administration staff and there is very little union presence. In our office I think there is about 30% membership and a lot of existing members are dropping out due to lack of union backing. Catch-22 situation really not enough members, not enough power. Probably explains why we haven't had a pay rise since 2008.

[Tamsky]

Clash is right again. As someone who does represent members in conduct and attendance I always check the memberhip, if they are not a member I usually go in as a friend. Only if they have respected picket lines. Most reps will assist non members where the non membership is innocent enough.

M9999 it depends on where you work and whether your Area Rep adopts this attitude. It would pay you to phone and ask. Good luck.

[Pat Ostman]

The union will ONLY fight cases they assume they will win. Rely on the CWU at your peril and I am a union member....

I have seen whales with bigger teeth.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

The union will ONLY fight cases they assume they will win. Rely on the CWU at your peril and I am a union member....

I have seen whales with bigger teeth.

Thats at ET and to be fair whether you agree with it or not it is standard practice for most if not all Unions. Its also the same for No win no fee solicitors as well.

Having said that the CWU did go the whole distance for the guys at Burslem at lost that in the end.

[Tman]

More correctly, they'll only fight cases where there's been an obvious injustice or a bigger principle is at stake.
They always think long and hard before a 50:50 "he said she said" case, and they won't take on the fight to keep some caught-bang-to-rights thieving git his or her job (other than to ensure the correct procedures are followed).

[Martin Walsh]

To be fair I have known indivduals to have left the union then got in trouble and then requested union reprsentation. The advice from CWU HQs ix that you can be reprsented provided that you pay all the union subs to cover the break in your membership.

Those who have never been members and then decide to request to become a member when they are in the s**t are out on a limb. The CWU like all other unions are a voluntary organisation if you feel you are better being a non member then you are entitled to do just that. However you have to accept that the CWU will achieve changes to your contract of employment through agreements with the employer which you will have to accept but have no say in. Equally you will have no reprsentation in the workplace from the CWU if you fall foul of the conduct code , attendance procudre or any other Royal Mail policy.

[belle smith]

Clash is right again. As someone who does represent members in conduct and attendance I always check the memberhip, if they are not a member I usually go in as a friend. Only if they have respected picket lines. Most reps will assist non members where the non membership is innocent enough.

M9999 it depends on where you work and whether your Area Rep adopts this attitude. It would pay you to phone and ask. Good luck.

Theres a lot of staff in my DO who were union members for a long time but are no longer. They have always gone on strike when asked to official and unofficial, which is also usually the case with the members although some members have on occassion worked through unofficial stoppages, and on very rare occassion have worked through official action.

There is also only a minority in my office who start at the correct time and take their tea break, again most are no longer union members, and for me perosnally this is not a straight foward issue, as to who the union speaks up for.

A lot of members "pay their subs" but undermine the union and expect a free ride!

[belle smith]

i have no intention of arguing with people on here, this thread has been helpful to me.

to be perfectly honest ive never been around a union before, im not a postie and where i work there isnt a big union influence, ive never heard of or seen any meetings with the rep and the members for instance. whilst ive been working there the union has always been in the background mentioned every now and then, ive never been asked to join or talked to a rep, but i cant say that ive ever given much thought to joining in the past.

that has obviously been my fault, i honestly didnt think the union would be so upset about it. if they represented me and helped me keep my job, which lead to me being a member for years and years would they really care how i joined? presumably not everyone who joins the union does it out of a philosophy, and turns to it in their time of need?

anyway, ive learnt in this thread what i wanted to, the union wont represent me and i cant get outside representation. hopefully things will work out ok me, theres no need for me to keep asking for help here, so thanks to everyone who gave me the information. bye.

You are still entiteld to take someone in as a witness ie. a work colleague..... assuming a colleague is will to go with you at the very least do that!

[labbloke]

Last week a friend of mine had a small house fire (chip pan, will they never learn), do you think I should tell him to contact an insurance company and see if they would kindly pay up for his damages if he promises to be a policy holder from now on.

I asked him why he didnt have insurance and he didnt moan about the companies not approaching him or never seeing an insurance salesman, he just shrugged his shoulders and said he didnt think he needed it and was happy to save his premiums.

[brothermagrew]

Where an employer recognises one union can a worker ask to be accompanied by an official of another union at a disciplinary or grievance hearing?
Yes. There is no requirement in the Employment Relations Act 1999, section 10 that a trade union official who accompanies a worker at a disciplinary or grievance hearing must be from a recognised trade union. The official must simply be either employed by a trade union of which he or she is an official, or a lay official of a trade union whom the union has reasonably certified in writing as having experience of, or as having received training in, acting as a worker's companion at disciplinary or grievance hearings. Certification may take the form of a card or letter. If the worker is a member of a non-recognised trade union, the worker may therefore ask to be accompanied by a trade union official from that trade union. Indeed, there is no requirement in the legislation for the worker to be a member of the trade union at all to be accompanied by a trade union official, although in practice trade unions rarely support workers who are not their members.

Where an employee chooses to be accompanied at a disciplinary or grievance hearing by a union official, is the official required to be qualified or trained in this role?
Under s.10 of the Employment Relations Act 1999, a worker has the statutory right to be accompanied by a trade union official or fellow worker when attending a formal disciplinary or grievance hearing. For these purposes, a trade union official must either be employed by the trade union or, if not employed by the union, have been certified, in writing, by the union, as having experience of, or as having received training in, acting as a worker's companion at disciplinary or grievance hearings. An official who is not employed by the union and who does not have the appropriate certification cannot, therefore, act as a companion. The legislation assumes that officials employed by the trade union will have the necessary experience or training.

An "official" means an officer of the union, or of a branch or section of the union, or a person elected or appointed in accordance with the rules of the union to be a representative of its members, and includes a person so elected or appointed who is an employee of the same employer as the members that he or she is to represent.

Does a worker have to be a union member to request to be accompanied by a trade union official at a disciplinary or grievance hearing?
No, a worker does not have to be a union member to request to be accompanied by a trade union official at a disciplinary or grievance hearing, but this is subject to the union official agreeing to appear on the worker’s behalf. Unions often require a minimum period of membership before they will agree to provide a companion, to avoid workers joining the union only when they are faced with disciplinary action.