D2D change How did it affect earnings

[Martin Walsh]

Dogs of war the CWU never supported the colleague share payment we always said it was a con ! The union had legal advice on whether we could change colleague shares in order to get the money paid quicker. The legal advice said the first two share envaluations had already been communicated and therefore the union could not change. The third the union could alter and it did do by changing the colleague share to lump sums linked to revisions etc. A lot on here made light of this and stated that we would have got this money by colleague share in any case! Well who was right ?

Now the con dems are very nervous about the unions position and there will be a good announcement on de regulation shortly which will help royal mail quite a bit ! Now in the sceme of things you have to ask would we be better off with an agreement in place and fighting for the government and royal mail to honour it or no agreement in place which allows for both to introduce what change they want ?

[fishtank]

The third the union could alter and it did do by changing the colleague share to lump sums linked to revisions etc. A lot on here made light of this and stated that we would have got this money by colleague share in any case! Well who was right ?

No dingo....we would have got the transformation lump sums regardless of whether the colleagueshare money was "added" or not.
The revisions may not be moving forward as quickly as Royal Mail want but they wouldn't have moved at all without the right financial reward...Royal Mail knew that from the start...the act of moving the third issue into the revision lump sums was just that...an act....an illusion.
Royal Mail never had any intention of paying out on the first,second or final issue of shares and what was put into the lump sums was considered the minimum amount it would cost to buy member participation in the revisions.
And i use the word "participation" in it's loosest form.

[fishtank]

Now in the sceme of things you have to ask would we be better off with an agreement in place and fighting for the government and royal mail to honour it or no agreement in place which allows for both to introduce what change they want ?

Are you sure the membership want to fight for the Agreement?...it's their union and their agreement.
This isn't about what you or i think about the agreement.
I remember my gran telling me over and over that Castor Oil was good for me,i thought with all that experience she must know best.
It turns out it just gives you a dose of the runs.

[dvbuk55]

Now in the sceme of things you have to ask would we be better off with an agreement in place and fighting for the government and royal mail to honour it or no agreement in place which allows for both to introduce what change they want ?

Well it seems to me they are doing precisely what they want when they want with or without the agreement, in place or not. I smell another defeat being snatched from ...........well the last defeat really.

[clashcityrocker]

In Fascist Italy under the regime of Benito Mussolini, castor oil was one of the tools of the blackshirts. Political dissidents were force-fed large quantities of castor oil by Fascist squads. This technique was said to have been originated by Gabriele D'Annunzio. Victims of this treatment did sometimes die, as the dehydrating effects of the oil-induced diarrhea often complicated the recovery from the nightstick beating they also received along with the castor oil; however even those victims who survived had to bear the humiliation of the laxative effects resulting from excessive consumption of the oil.

It is said Mussolini's power was backed by "the bludgeon and castor oil".

[dvbuk55]

In Fascist Italy under the regime of Benito Mussolini, castor oil was one of the tools of the blackshirts. Political dissidents were force-fed large quantities of castor oil by Fascist squads. This technique was said to have been originated by Gabriele D'Annunzio. Victims of this treatment did sometimes die, as the dehydrating effects of the oil-induced diarrhea often complicated the recovery from the nightstick beating they also received along with the castor oil; however even those victims who survived had to bear the humiliation of the laxative effects resulting from excessive consumption of the oil.

It is said Mussolini's power was backed by "the bludgeon and castor oil".

I thought the coffee tasted funny, has the bludgeoning started yet.............I mean is it really a stick or was that a metaphorical term for being forced to work harder and harder for less money

[fishtank]

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Now a few observations , if was not the union who proposed the door to door being included in workload ,it was Royal Mail insisting that it had to be done in order for them to try to win a bigger chunk of money.

I will be kind and call that a misrepresentation of the facts...it was CWU conference policy to get D2D into workload,so proud of achieving this HQ even put it on BTA Letter to Branches.


Delivery

The Delivery section has achieved the following:-

• Long standing conference policy removal of private cars on delivery confirmed....not achieved yet.

• Achievement of conference policy removal of weight off the shoulder....not achieved and already being watered down.

• Achievement of conference policy Door to Door into workload plus retention of the remuneration....Oh dear.

• A revised revision process that involves the CWU from start to finish which was one of the fundamental issues of the national dispute....reps are being sidelined up and down the country...sometimes by their own area rep.

• A firm commitment from the business to a minimum of one in four Saturdays off.....unless you're part-time.

• The establishment of a national review group overseeing Door to Door....don't hear much from them...how is that "readdress the payment when we reach six" thing going and the "sleeve" trials?

[dvbuk55]

Good call ft, once again you have shown that some have a selective memory. I also recall the colleague share being shown in the rewards section of the agreement but what I didn't see was any reference to the union being opposed to it or an allusion to it being a con in the many posts on here by those who would have sold their soul to get a yes vote. Can we now expect those self same apostles declaring that they didn't really support the agreement in the first place now that it is closer to home. Of course those of a more prudent mind perhaps wouldn't have forged ahead with a 3 year agreement whilst a change of government was imminent, a recession was in flow, VAT was to be increased and there was every likelihood that a Tory government would go for privatisation. Perhaps a more thorough large scale trial of the modernisation procedure would have been wiser when a true evaluation of any savings would have been more evident. I would have thought the lesson to be learned was NO MORE CASTOR OIL, please.

[red 86]

Losing over a grand a year under the new system .The only way the union got it through was to offer the deal to everyone .for if it had just been for walking posties we would have laugh at them and then telled them to stick it where the sun dont shine.

[fishtank]

Losing over a grand a year under the new system .The only way the union got it through was to offer the deal to everyone .for if it had just been for walking posties we would have laugh at them and then telled them to stick it where the sun dont shine.

I disagree.If delivery had told them to stick the agreement it would not have been accepted.
I think apathy and fear won the day...who was responsible for injecting that fear and apathy into the membership is a different story but one thing is for sure.
You reap what you sow and the last thing the union needs now is fear and apathy...
ISM.......Ironic Suicide by Myopia.

[flyingsam]

Losing over a grand a year under the new system .The only way the union got it through was to offer the deal to everyone .for if it had just been for walking posties we would have laugh at them and then telled them to stick it where the sun dont shine.

get your local council to publish in their news letters how people can opt out of D2D,they still have to pay you even if you don't deliver any.Royal Mail will never treat their staff with respect,So just use them,have all you can out of them,accidents at work take as much time off as you like up to 5 months and 29 days on full pay.Make it work for you,

[The FraudSquad]

Now the con dems are very nervous about the unions position Now in the sceme of things you have to ask would we be better off with an agreement in place and fighting for the government and royal mail to honour it or no agreement in place which allows for both to introduce what change they want ?

Isnt that what they are going to do imminently with the sell off of the company???? I cant see how any of them are nervous? they are tunnel visioned meglomaniacs that dont listen or care about anything

[Martin Walsh]

Ok fishtank lets deal with your point , I know what the conference policy was as I was involved in the debate in the 90s. However their is one thing carrying a poliicy and another trying to achieve that policy. The union did not pursue the issue on door to door , it was in Royal Mail`s business plan , quite frankly dealing with Door to Door was a poison challice for the CWU. For years members used to write in saying we did not want to deliver the stuff the money and the moment the union introduced it into workload you never met a postman or woman who did not deliver 3 every week to over 700 addresses and they thought it was a betrayal.

So it was Royal Mail who wanted to introduce it , so the union after much debate deciding they we had to reach an agreement on it knowing how unpopular it would be but to get the right deal.

Now in terms of colleague share and the lump sums well lets just agree to disagree.

Now as someone who believes the union is at a cross roads and as someone who has just agreed a time table for an industrial action ballot in opposition of complusory redundanices I believe firmly that the members always should have the final say via the ballot box either on supporting or rejecting an agreement or supporting an industrial action ballot. Thats what we will be doing unless Royal Mail change their mind.

You see the union is better when you meet the members and explain the issues and then give them the opportunity to ask and then vote.

I know I can count on one hand the times when you take time to explain the issues and then ask them to back you and the members say no. Our members
know the union are not perfect but without a union what would your conditions really be like.

[sanyo]

Our members
know the union are not perfect but without a union what would your conditions really be like.

Sick to death of hearing this line, same speal over and over again. It reminds me of a company that uses the same lines over and over again. Please don't take this as a personal attack. Posties have a duty to perform and if they don't do it they get sacked one way or the other. The union has a duty to its member's which in my opinion they do not do to a standard that is acceptable to a lot of the members. Although I have full respect for my union, it is only at local level. In regard to you saying the supplement for D2D will remain after 2013 then please show me a signed agreement on this that has no get out clause .......lol . The last time I went out on strike I had a letter from the union as did everyone else. The last few lines stated that the union would not accept any deal with royal mail until the pension issue was totally sorted. The deal went through although the pension was not sorted. The pension issues still remain and bar a miniscule pay rise the deal sucked. The only other good part of the deal was that there would be no job losses. So why the hell are there posties on here worried about their offices being shut and wondering how they are going to feed their families. Through the deal also came the fact that union officials would be given more time off of delivery to deal with union matters. This is a good thing, but the way things are going at the moment, the only thing that we are going to hear from the union is who's still got a job.

[flyingsam]

Our members
know the union are not perfect but without a union what would your conditions really be like.

Sick to death of hearing this line, same speal over and over again. It reminds me of a company that uses the same lines over and over again. Please don't take this as a personal attack. Posties have a duty to perform and if they don't do it they get sacked one way or the other. The union has a duty to its member's which in my opinion they do not do to a standard that is acceptable to a lot of the members. Although I have full respect for my union, it is only at local level. In regard to you saying the supplement for D2D will remain after 2013 then please show me a signed agreement on this that has no get out clause .......lol . The last time I went out on strike I had a letter from the union as did everyone else. The last few lines stated that the union would not accept any deal with royal mail until the pension issue was totally sorted. The deal went through although the pension was not sorted. The pension issues still remain and bar a miniscule pay rise the deal sucked. The only other good part of the deal was that there would be no job losses. So why the hell are there posties on here worried about their offices being shut and wondering how they are going to feed their families. Through the deal also came the fact that union officials would be given more time off of delivery to deal with union matters. This is a good thing, but the way things are going at the moment, the only thing that we are going to hear from the union is who's still got a job.

Well said sanyo, all the time the pension deficit is there,we (posties)have no chance as RM will use this all the time.When RM took a 10 year plus pension holiday,what happened to that money,if it was not used for the pension,then the CWU should be looking at a legal case to retrieve that money for its members.Like I have said in my posts,get what you can out of RM make it work for you,Jupiters cock let me spread my cheeks so RM can shaft me some more.