The truth behind the London Mail Centre plan

[rockytony67]

if you can not do this then tell me why you defend someone who is spreading ideas that you or he can not back up

You can't get dv out of your head rocky,i haven't once defended him in this thread,he's old enough to defend himself,what i said to you was that it is pointless directing your anger at him because the issues run far deeper than dv and royalmailchat.
Since you've just asked the same question again...

so I ask you again to give me a couple of examples of London postie's been give better treatment then posties in the rest of the country

I'll just repost my answer....

This was never about London posties having it easy,it's about the powerbase in the union and how that is perceived throughout the rest of the union,it's about HQ's apparent willingness to throw their weight behind the LDC at the drop of a hat and yet leave other areas hanging but mostly it's about a union that has forgotten how to both communicate with and organise it's membership outside the M25.

Maybe you could read it this time....

I say that it has been spread by RM mangers

Of course it has...but the union has done nothing to redress this and in some cases made it worse with separate negotiating teams, separate ACAS facilitators and in some cases separate agreements.

I don't believe posties in the country believe the lies,

Dream on rocky...dream on.

Your having a laugh "I can't get dv out of my head" you and him are like an old married couple, it's almost as if you were the same person as you won't answer my point about London posties having it better then elsewere and you say"HQ's apparent willingness to throw their weight behind the LDC at the drop of a hat" can you give me a couple of examples also do you believe the lie

[Big Daz]

If the local London reps the area london reps and the divison london reps work damm hard and get results then I say lets have some praise dished out, lets be pleased for our comrades in London that their london reps are doing a good job.

[randompostman]

If I remember correctly Dingo said the last deal was a good one and we should all vote yes? Well mate you got your vote and it was a bad one! I also seem to remember part of that deal would protect F/T jobs but allowed RM to shut MCs as and when they needed to with no intervention from the CWU HQ, the office or centre could campaign but it was no longer a national issue for the CWU. If they are breaking a small part of the agreement just go back to acas to mediate for you I think that was also in the deal but please as a broken Union we all have our own issue`s and fallout from that sh*t deal that we can’t to anything about so maybe it is time for Dingo to move forward and get RM and acas to sort it all out because there is nothing we can do about it. The last time we went with London on something we ended up in a far worse position than we were and I am sure most don’t want it to get worse than it is now. Get Billy and Dave to help you out if you like?

[Martin Walsh]

Alright let me state and explain why I thought it was the right agreement . The agreement was to do with Royal Mail`s business plan. That plan was to close mail centres , introuce automation , changes the work plan , introduce CDVs , D2D etc. Remember their plan would have still been introduced with or without an agreement.

The wording in the agreement has provided safeguards. A lot of people are annoyed that the agreement introduce D2D into workload but that was the unions policy since 1994 and Royal Mail had proposed for the removal of the payment all together in 2006 and in the lead up to the pay and Mod dispute. Door to Door was never going to remain the same. Delivery Best praticse was already in place and some offices had already agreed to Geo route revsions when the union had said dont get involved.

Now the fact is Royal Mail`s business plan has not worked. Royal Mail operation managers are stating that they were getting more savings and increasing productivity faster when they were not talking to the Union. Why because their plan is flawed they have overestimated the savings they were going to make and the fact that things like CDVs etc is one of the biggest ever changes to deliveries and in a number of cases dont work.

Now some may view and they do the reason why Royal Mail`s business plan is not working is that the union in offices are stopping Royal Mail`s plans and getting the right deals thanks to the wording in the agreement. Royal Mail have changed timescales etc due to the fact their revisions are not working in some places and those units have got better deals as a result. Now if anyone seriously believed if the union had said no to the agreement that Royal Mail would have said we will not introduce their business plan which included CDVs automation etc then you seriously are deluded.


Now in terms of you coming out to support London in 2009 that is rubbish , us and loads of other parts of the UK were fighting well before the rest of you were ready too and some areas mail centres done our work when we were out on strike and one overtime. Something we have never done we went out when Liverpool were out unofficially 10 years ago when we had work diverted to London its called unity and solidarity.

Now no one is asking at this moment anyone to ballot in support of London , it is our job to get our members up for the fight first. We will be doing this but we also expect when we are out that you dont do our work.

Yes London is not liked for lots of reasons but no one can deny if it was not for us in 2003 there would not have been an agreement on the single daily delivery and the introduction of the 5 day week. Why the rest of the UK got a no vote. London got a yes vote in both the national and the seperate London weighting ballot which led to the unofficial dipute which clinched the deal.

[randompostman]

Well as far as I can see you would be better sorting these issues with RM HQ acas and the TUC the ones that brokered the deal you said was good because you have NO chance of getting a yes vote except maybe London if HQ allowed a ballot? I wouldn’t think HQ would as RM would go straight to court and get an injunction anyway. As for others doing London MCs work, because of the way we have been divided by RM and the CWU if any MC refused to do the work it could and would be be deemed unofficial IA so again RM would go to court and the CWU would be taken to pieces bit by bit in fines. I don’t agree with doing that type of work but HQ have allowed us as a Union to fragment to such a degree, to not do it would just cost the jobs of those that refused and probably hasten the closure of their own MCs after the strong backbone Union members had been sacked. Sorry but that’s how I see it, I will always go out if asked to and will always vote yes for IA including this but most wont. Our branch and area was one of only five where there was accord in voting against the deal whilst London branches and area`s voted yes. Maybe our Union officials will read the small print next time but posting on RMC about this "issue" is a waste of time other than for information only, the time should be used to talk to those that maybe able to do something about it and that is not Posties but the Union bosses and the other members of the group listed above that brokered the deal and gave us no other option but to go along with the deal.

[Tman]

Tman i expect it from....you....

You didn't get any insults from..........me....

Tman wrote:
........but was it Thing 1 or Thing 2 who asked for the ban? Are they really two different people...?

What the f**k is that about numbnuts?

The Cat in the Hat? You know, the book you read (or had read to you) as a kid? So who's the numbnuts here?
You do get touchy when the DV/FT tie up is mentioned though...

[Martin Walsh]

Radom your wrong on a number of counts in your response.

1. North /North West London voted against the deal. Only a handful of branchs got a majority even when some recommended to the members to vote no.

2. The PEC on Monday will endorse the London ballot but the ballot is not about stopping mail centre closures it is because Royal Mail`s plan is at odds with the BTA agreement and will lead to complusory redundancies.

3. On what grounds can Royal Mail get an in junction ?

4. Now in terms of people doing other peoples work well the union has always been fragmented it was started as a federation. But its only in recent times that people do the work of others whilst they are taking strike.

Now your right RMC will not change anything but it is important that there is two sides to an arguement put and that information on events is accurate. I and others will make our views known at the meeting at CWU HQs on Monday and at the National briefing on Tuesday .

[DGP1]

It's a good job those London posties have enough time to get annoyed.................I suppose it must be hard with all those chips of gold on the shoulders.

The majority of people outside London only see that they get it easy (many more FT postitions, shorter deliveries etc.) and the CWU jumps when something happens there so you need to understand why we get upset about these things.

Facts please can you tell me were these shorter deliveries are? also what is the ratio FT 2 PT in your area compared to London, also can you tell me when the CWU jumped when something happened

PT/FT split in my office is 50-50 at the moment and your shorter deliveries.................10 hour days and 3.5 hour delivery, that's all we see, we compare our offices with London and can't see how you can justify the hours, as FT said, it's all about perception but I suppose that chip on your shoulder mean you can't see how anyone else thinks.
And the CWU did sweet FA when all the sh1t was going down in my office, well they sent the area rep down who told us just to go along with the plans even though they knew they'd fail, London went on full strike when you lost your 'inovative' duty structures but we were just left to hang in the wind.

TBH with the attitude you are now showing all you're going to do is put more people against London, not give them more support.

[hubbahubba]

You say MC's processed "strike" mail in the past.Why then,were the reps in these MC's not contacted,and told to address members on this issue?

[fishtank]

Tuesday's meeting will be one of the most important in the Union's recent history.
If a clear unified direction regarding the agreement and everything around it is not found and properly communicated to the membership then we really are in deep trouble.
Do we stand our ground and fight to defend an agreement that is deeply unpopular with the rank and file membership?
Is the colleagueshare issue an issue we can fight and win or is it an unnecessary distraction?
Can the membership be united to fight the apparent threat of compulsory redundancies and a business that appears now to be run by the government,not the Royal Mail boardroom?

[fishtank]

Ok then Tman why did you wander into a thread and post...

Tman wrote:
........but was it Thing 1 or Thing 2 who asked for the ban? Are they really two different people...?

Was it?
a) to add to the debate..
b) to prove that you had read(or had read to you )...a book.
c) to throw in a cheap insult.
Don't bother answering...we'll let the readers decide.

[Martin Walsh]

Fishtank cannot reveal too much but a very intresting meeting took place on Friday afternoon which has already stopped something happening.

Hubbahubba you really think that did not happen.

[hubbahubba]

Tuesday's meeting will be one of the most important in the Union's recent history.
If a clear unified direction regarding the agreement and everything around it is not found and properly communicated to the membership then we really are in deep trouble.
Do we stand our ground and fight to defend an agreement that is deeply unpopular with the rank and file membership?
Is the colleagueshare issue an issue we can fight and win or is it an unnecessary distraction?
Can the membership be united to fight the apparent threat of compulsory redundancies and a business that appears now to be run by the government,not the Royal Mail boardroom?

The union will send a letter to RM demanding they stick to the agreement,RM will lie,and say they will honour the agreement.Then RM and the CWU will have a nice meeting and RM will tell the union that they will give everyone a £100 goodwill gesture in lieu of the CS payment.The union will come out saying "look at this wonderful victory!".Meanwhile RM p*ss themselves having saved £1300 per FT postie!Just a thought,anyone else got any theories?

[hubbahubba]

Fishtank cannot reveal too much but a very intresting meeting took place on Friday afternoon which has already stopped something happening.

Hubbahubba you really think that did not happen.

I would very much hope so,yes!
Also is there a list of MC''s that did this available?

[rockytony67]

It's a good job those London posties have enough time to get annoyed.................I suppose it must be hard with all those chips of gold on the shoulders.

The majority of people outside London only see that they get it easy (many more FT postitions, shorter deliveries etc.) and the CWU jumps when something happens there so you need to understand why we get upset about these things.

Facts please can you tell me were these shorter deliveries are? also what is the ratio FT 2 PT in your area compared to London, also can you tell me when the CWU jumped when something happened

PT/FT split in my office is 50-50 at the moment and your shorter deliveries.................10 hour days and 3.5 hour delivery, that's all we see, we compare our offices with London and can't see how you can justify the hours, as FT said, it's all about perception but I suppose that chip on your shoulder mean you can't see how anyone else thinks.
And the CWU did sweet FA when all the sh1t was going down in my office, well they sent the area rep down who told us just to go along with the plans even though they knew they'd fail, London went on full strike when you lost your 'inovative' duty structures but we were just left to hang in the wind.

TBH with the attitude you are now showing all you're going to do is put more people against London, not give them more support.

It's not about a chip on my shoulder it's about realty, what you have described there bears no relation to any London office I know, it's as simple as that I ask you again can you tell me some offices that work the way you say as for FT/PT split my office is 70/30 with four vac's, which if filled would be P/T, I accept that that is less then your's but I'm sure there are offices outside London with less P/T, as for London going on strike that is up to the LDC and London Branches if your area wanted to ballot all you had two do was ask HQ for a ballot, did you