The truth behind the London Mail Centre plan

[AnotherLimey]

Then i stand corrected

Prehaps there are more idiots in delivery than i realised!

[belle smith]

Fishtank we dont always agree but you are a poster I repsect and the answer is no there are no jobs. Royal Mail are using the recieving offices productivity level as the basis of jobs and all the London mail centres are lower in Productiviity. Now Romford , Greenford , Jubbilee and Croydon have all have VR from revisions already. The age profile of London now is the majority are 40 to 50 years of age with 10 to 15 years service. Most will have to find another job and we do believe that many will opt for VR.

Belle again I respect this is not simply about fighting to get Royal Mail to honour an agreement , its about saying regardless of an agreement are the cwu going to standby and let members be made complusory redundant ? I know where I stand on that count and I would fight and try and get the members to support where ever it was happening.

With regards to some of the other posters who have commented and said sod London , well I say is that not whats wrong with the trade union today ! To many people who look after themselves and dont see the union as what it should be united we stand divided we fall.

Again dingo will RM offer them alternative employment in DO's??
If the answer is yes then even if you secure a yes vote to strike action, we will look ridicules arguing against compulsory redundancies that are not actually happening.

I maintain that the retorec of the union will be RM must honour the agreement, it already is.

[belle smith]

Hi,

I think Delievery staff have to back what dingo is saying, today Mailcentres tomorrow Delivery offices.

64 MC to 32 how many Delivery offices are close by together, Manchester there around 10 bunch up in less than 5 miles radius.

Then there another 10, so once they finished with Mail Centres and RDC, its will be the DO cull.


you can see it coming

jimmy

where will there be a DO cull?
Without the removal of the USO there will be no cull. Just longer deliveries and more pressure to work quicker with less pay and thats already all agreed anyway.

[dvbuk55]

What I would like to point out is the agreement NEVER did say there would be NO compulsory redundancies....................what it did say was "try to avoid", so as I once said, the words are the words and that is what the agreement will stand by. The agreement was co signed by the CWU and ratified by the members................it's like a marriage..............in sickness and in health, for richer for poorer - the bottom line is you lie with dogs you get fleas.

[dvbuk55]

Hi,

I think Delievery staff have to back what dingo is saying, today Mailcentres tomorrow Delivery offices.

64 MC to 32 how many Delivery offices are close by together, Manchester there around 10 bunch up in less than 5 miles radius.

Then there another 10, so once they finished with Mail Centres and RDC, its will be the DO cull.


you can see it coming

jimmy

where will there be a DO cull?
Without the removal of the USO there will be no cull. Just longer deliveries and more pressure to work quicker with less pay and thats already all agreed anyway.

There will be a cull of DOs without a shadow of a doubt but RM will deal with the mail centres first, that's a much more lucrative proposition for them. The DOs will be less of a saving. What will happen IMO will be the closure of old and small offices and new large ones built. The P&L lends itself beautifully to that scenario because if you have the transport, and they have (well according to one wag on here 10,000 parked in a field somewhere), distance is no object.

[Martin Walsh]

Belle there are no jobs available in London Delivery Offices , Remember according to Royal Mail delivery offices in London have the biggest task in reaching the upper decile of offices. There is no prospect of any Mail Centre getting a job in Deliveries or in Mail Centres. Remember the Mount is losing 57% of its full time staffing , there are no jobs for 80% of the full time employees in East London and no jobs for 60% of the Nine Elms full time workforce.

Now tell me when has this happened anywhere else. We have previously seen seven mail centres in London close but everyone of them closures had a peoples plan which meant that indivduals could move to the mail centre where there work was going , take VR or secure a transfer to another office. Under Royal Mail`s plan there are no jobs and our members have no future and it will lead to compluory redundancies.

Now the agreement states " Royal Mail and CWU that the overarching objective is to deliver the transformation without recourse to compulsory redundancies.

Now that is a clear a committment that you would get in an agreement. It is the number one objective and they are going to break it.

[tpost]

I am in delivery and 4 hour deliveries and park and loop have been in our office for nearly 2 years. I now hope every week that the chance of VR comes along and I am not the only one. This job is finished and so is the union. Our office was rock solid in the last 2 strikes but now nobody cares after the 2010 agreement.

[Fluke]

Last time I looked, there was no agreement of which offices were in the upper decile, and if there was an agreement, how sure are we that offices in the upper decile are measured correctly, ie. unmeasured work hours from prats that start early being used to increase the items per work hour?

I certainly don't blame our colleagues in processing for voting in a crap deal, I do however blame the macabre circus that was the CWU road show, that toured the country convincing our members it was a good deal, in fact the only deal!

The problem we now face is that members have lost faith in CWU HQ. Prior to the 2010 agreement members throughout the rest of the country were subjected to an unprecedented level of bullying and harassment with piss poor revisions being bought in using executive action, whilst those in CWU HQ did feck all. Offices were going out independently all over the country and members were looking towards CWU HQ for help and it took an age for them to respond. When they did, the results were disappointing to say the least, we had RM on the ropes and we took a step back? Unfortunately - no matter what the reason, its going to be hard getting the membership to put up a fight - After the last deal, they just don't trust our leadership.

In my area, we've seen delays of up to 4 months before revision payments are made, while RM bean counters go over the figures to see if enough's been done/saved to warrant the £200 payment. RM are no longer interested in the likes of IWT as its not giving them the savings they want or giving them fast enough, and were starting to see them trying return to desktop revisions. HQ are aware of these issues and have done nothing, now HQ sit idle while RM rob the membership of colleague shares.

I personally would support industrial action to fight compulsory redundancy, but I'd rather trust Harold Shipman with me mum than trust the current CWU leadership to sort a decent deal out to end it.

[belle smith]

Belle there are no jobs available in London Delivery Offices , Remember according to Royal Mail delivery offices in London have the biggest task in reaching the upper decile of offices. There is no prospect of any Mail Centre getting a job in Deliveries or in Mail Centres. Remember the Mount is losing 57% of its full time staffing , there are no jobs for 80% of the full time employees in East London and no jobs for 60% of the Nine Elms full time workforce.

Thanks for the answer.

Now tell me when has this happened anywhere else. We have previously seen seven mail centres in London close but everyone of them closures had a peoples plan which meant that indivduals could move to the mail centre where there work was going , take VR or secure a transfer to another office. Under Royal Mail`s plan there are no jobs and our members have no future and it will lead to compluory redundancies.

Now the agreement states " Royal Mail and CWU that the overarching objective is to deliver the transformation without recourse to compulsory redundancies.

Now that is a clear a committment that you would get in an agreement. It is the number one objective and they are going to break it.

It's not happend elsewere as far as i can see, i haven't said otherwise, i did in another thread as it happens say i thought that on this occassion London members might be being treated worse than other areas.

If you's go for another ballot you will seriously be strugling to get a yes vote nationally though. I know lots at my office that voted yes last time, not because they thought that it was a good agreement though, but because they had lump sums dangeld infront of them and belived it was coming in anyway.

I know of lots in my office who not only say they will not vote for strike action but that they will not "go on strike for them again."

Now this issue does not directly effect most members, it certainly does not immeadiatly effect most members. The issues which effected most members were not dealt with with the last agreement, instead the problems were compounded.

So you tell me dingo were do we go from here? Because i don't think it is possable to secure a yes vote in a national ballot.
If i am balloted i may in the end up voteing yes but my heart certainly wouldn't be in it!

[dvbuk55]

Perhaps it just boils down to the fact that London MCs and Delivery Offices are overstaffed and underworked and that they have been over protected from reality for far too long. If there aren't any jobs then there aren't and any overarching objective is just that, an objective not a reality.

[belle smith]

where will there be a DO cull?
Without the removal of the USO there will be no cull. Just longer deliveries and more pressure to work quicker with less pay and thats already all agreed anyway.

There will be a cull of DOs without a shadow of a doubt but RM will deal with the mail centres first, that's a much more lucrative proposition for them. The DOs will be less of a saving. What will happen IMO will be the closure of old and small offices and new large ones built. The P&L lends itself beautifully to that scenario because if you have the transport, and they have (well according to one wag on here 10,000 parked in a field somewhere), distance is no object.

Thats not a cull of staff dvbuk55, the reason MC's are srewed is that 'competition' robs them of their work, in DO's we still cary that work as downstream access.
Falling mail volumes (although seriously exagerated by RM hooper and the goverment) mean less jobs, not longer deliveries.
Higher levels of Walk sorting and sequencing can save some jobs, but that simply passes some of the pain on to deliveries.

[belle smith]

Perhaps it just boils down to the fact that London MCs and Delivery Offices are overstaffed and underworked and that they have been over protected from reality for far too long. If there aren't any jobs then there aren't and any overarching objective is just that, an objective not a reality.

They are specifically moving work out of London MC's because they want the land!

[dvbuk55]

Perhaps it just boils down to the fact that London MCs and Delivery Offices are overstaffed and underworked and that they have been over protected from reality for far too long. If there aren't any jobs then there aren't and any overarching objective is just that, an objective not a reality.

They are specifically moving work out of London MC's because they want the land!

The work has moved and the land is worth more to them than the workforce and the MC and that is the reality of the situation. I have to ask though where has the union leaders been not to envisage the repercussions of falling volumes of work - perhaps they took their eye off the ball with the promise of trust and a new understanding. That situation is location specific and doesn't require a national response, if the saving of jobs and MCs can be justified then I am sure those in the loop, who can see the big picture who have led from the front time after time will surely be up to the task.

[rockytony67]

Perhaps it just boils down to the fact that London MCs and Delivery Offices are overstaffed and underworked and that they have been over protected from reality for far too long. If there aren't any jobs then there aren't and any overarching objective is just that, an objective not a reality.

What a nice fella you are underworked? to be honest I'm glad you left the union, because I would go on strike to protect your right's, but I wouldn't want to have to call on the likes of you for support, the rumours and half truths that you have spread about the London workforce over the past couple of years have been an absolute disgrace(and if you want me to go back thru your post's and put them up I will) as for reality I think you should get some, because you have been talking rubbish about normal hardworking people for far too long

[dvbuk55]

Perhaps the truth hurts. There was always going to be job losses that was implicit in the agreement and I am sure that Royal Mail are quite capable of identifying those areas. Post away rocky it makes no odds to me.