Park and Loop

[fishtank]

Fings ain't what they used to be...............

Indeed they are not DV.....

[dvbuk55]

Fings ain't what they used to be...............

Indeed they are not DV.....

Reminds me of that old old saying:

As you are now, so once was I,: As I am now, so you will be.............a bit like what goes around comes around, ft don't you think?

[fishtank]

Reminds me of that old old saying:

As you are now, so once was I,: As I am now, so you will be.............a bit like what goes around comes around, ft don't you think?

I think it will come around in spades.
When i started in this job the deliveries were around 2.30,the bag weights were minimal as was the pressure applied and therefore the damage to the human body was negligible.
Now it would seem that Royal Mail have managed to lift the span to ridiculous levels and are backtracking on any methods aimed at protecting members health so for any 20 year old just in the door i would start saving for that wheelchair now...while you are still fit enough to earn it.

[banjo1t]

"As soon as we get a quieter day we are going to treat our van to a session in the car wash" - my words, is not the same as "if I finish early one day I'll clean the van" - your words !!!

Can't see the difference between the above statements!!?

I started this report to take people through a revision truthfully from it's implementation without favouring any point of view but my own relatively experienced one. If you wish to take shots at me for doing that it's okay by me - just don't apply to my office for a position - our dickhead quota is full.

It sounds like you can't take criticism, If you don't like like it, don't post on this forum.
Don't worry, I have no intentions of applying for a job at your office, as YOU say it's full of Dickheads....

[dvbuk55]

Reminds me of that old old saying:

As you are now, so once was I,: As I am now, so you will be.............a bit like what goes around comes around, ft don't you think?

I think it will come around in spades.
When i started in this job the deliveries were around 2.30,the bag weights were minimal as was the pressure applied and therefore the damage to the human body was negligible.
Now it would seem that Royal Mail have managed to lift the span to ridiculous levels and are backtracking on any methods aimed at protecting members health so for any 20 year old just in the door i would start saving for that wheelchair now...while you are still fit enough to earn it.

I look back and weep, I remember giving the managers a hard time when the gas/electric/telephone bills arrived and you could still complete in 2 and a half hours...............we don't get those days anymore but crikey have they ever found enough to replace 'em.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

It sounds like you can't take criticism, .

It sounds like you will do anything management throw at you!!
I don't know anyone who is 'HAPPY' with the new P&L arrangement, later finish times, more walking, the hassle of a work colleague, either on your back, or not quick enough, there won't be many who are equal, much prefer to work on my own at my own pace.
As for 'if I finish early one day I'll clean the van? what's all that about? Get a life!!

The bit in red is clearly not criticism, up to that point maybe but telling someone to get a life is not constructive is it .

I will ignore the dickhead comments because you were replying to his, and he was obviously pissed off with the "Get a Life" quote. Criticism if constructive is welcomed by most people, telling them to get a life is not, so please back on topic and stop the niggling please both of you.

[SWIM]

I remember the union fighting against us being out longer [sdd] cos of the sun/heat. I see that issues been totally forgotten.

[dvbuk55]

I remember the union fighting against us being out longer [sdd] cos of the sun/heat. I see that issues been totally forgetten.

Not forgotten exactly, the delivery span is an issue in the agreement but it is now called an enabler......which translates as any amount of time is OK now.

[skull]

I worked with someone today who's suffering with a lame leg . If it had been summer it would have been worthwhile throwing a sun lounger into the van so I could catch a few rays in-between loops . We brought back well over half of one duty . Sorry RM management but one lame leg is now costing you twice what it used to .

Did it not occur to you to help the guy with the dodgy leg?

No because in my opinion he shouldn't have been out on delivery . This guy is 100% geniune with his injury but if you started bailing posties out how long would it be until the lazy , injury feigning hypochondriacs cottoned on ?. How long would it be before managers started sending out injured posties knowing I'd take up the slack ? . Then you have posties who for various reasons can't move so fast , should I help them as well ?. With P&L you can only go as fast as the slowest person , it's brilliant and it will be brilliant for a faster postie than me .

I'm getting a bit of a guilty conscious now . I did go and deliver the big packets on the 2 loops and prepare the next two loops mail . I was only waiting back at each loop for about 10 mins , honest . When your used to you and your reguler partner getting back within a few minutes of each other , 10 mins seems a long time .

[Big Daz]

Just read the vast majority of this thread in one go and I would like to say thankyou to rhino for his informative and interesting posts

[hampshireman]

We are now coming to the end of the fourth week - and today we all got the revision bonus as promised.

I personally am quite happy with the change although the generally later finishing time is not so convenient and I now go home from the office instead of straight from the end of my walk. As soon as we get a quieter day we are going to treat our van to a session in the car wash - it will be nice to see the Royal Mail logo again !!!

p.s. Does anyone know if we are allowed to "pimp" our vans - I fancy some fluffy dice and our names on the windscreen

It sounds like you will do anything management throw at you!!
I don't know anyone who is 'HAPPY' with the new P&L arrangement, later finish times, more walking, the hassle of a work colleague, either on your back, or not quick enough, there won't be many who are equal, much prefer to work on my own at my own pace.
As for 'if I finish early one day I'll clean the van? what's all that about? Get a life!!

Strange as it may seem to you banjo1t, I have got a life, but during the part of it that is paid for by my employer I am obliged to fulfil, to the best of my ability, the job they pay me for. I'm satisfied that I do that and that is something I take home with me that you probably don't - job satisfaction.
If I wanted to set my own terms and conditions or do the job "my way" - I would be self employed. Park and loop will and in fact does work once self discipline and participation comes into play. I have no hassle with my van partner and we have made adjustments to ensure we finish as near as possible to each other. After working on my own for 16 years I valued my independance before the revision but have had no problem adjusting to change and find working in a partnership not only more pleasant but a sure fire way of backing up each others overtime claims !!!

To refer to your opening line "It sounds like you will do anything management throw at you!!" - Quite simply I don't - I do my job as required and support my colleagues in doing theirs. If I go a little over due to a busy day then it becomes an earning opportunity and I am happy to take advantage of it. I take a rest day on my days off because I need one to live the life you seem to think I haven't got. I had a job for nearly 30 years where I worked every saturday, late nights and occasional sundays and was called up on days off and holidays for information. This job is still considerably better than that.

"As soon as we get a quieter day we are going to treat our van to a session in the car wash" - my words, is not the same as "if I finish early one day I'll clean the van" - your words !!!

I started this report to take people through a revision truthfully from it's implementation without favouring any point of view but my own relatively experienced one. If you wish to take shots at me for doing that it's okay by me - just don't apply to my office for a position - our dickhead quota is full.

Well put.

[banjo1t]

Regardless of what has been said on this topic, he is my take on P&L
Firstly I am well qualified to comment on this method, because I have been doing this for the last 2 years,
I know the Pro’s and Con’s so to speak.

Before I comment on the roll out of the new P&L that is going on now across the country,
This is what has been happening in my office…

3X 30hr contracts have been sharing a Van covering 3 walks, you did your own packets, specials and tracked for the 3 rounds.
This is basically the same as P&L except there is 3 persons sharing one van.
The walks are evenly balanced, but there is no dedicated driver, so whoever gets back to the Van, and has spare time does the packets.
Now this works fine, if you have an average type of day, problems start to arise when you have more than say 25 packets to deliver.
None of the 3 are interested in working OT, we all just work to our time. Normally 2pm
What generally happens is we take out all the packets, find we can’t complete in time and so bring them back for delivery the next day, or if there are too many, or if the mail is very heavy, on that day, we don’t bother taking them at all.
This is with Management’s consent. (So much for the quality of service)
Now our typical day we are walking 3.5 hrs each, this equals to 10.5hrs
Geo-route has concluded that the 3 walks are to be condensed into 2 walks, removing approx 1.5hrs worth from one walk, so your talking 9hrs to be done by 2 people, that’s 4.5hrs actual walking!!
Needless to say I have no faith in Geo-route whatsoever!!

Our area rep stated at a meeting recently that Geo-route is working correctly, only to find out a month later,
they had found a fault with it, they had the little red van on the computer screen going from 0 to 30mph instantly between parking loops!!
Needless to say I have no faith in this Union!!

Management are very cunning.
The walks have been designed around a typical day in July, this gets round the old dreaded lapsing on their part,
in other words you work to your time all year round, only the idiots who run round to try and get a 15minute flier want their heads examined.
Mind you, some people think that because the walks have been enlarged, lapsing will be a thing of the past, well guess what, it’s here to stay!
Management will still expect you to take that extra street on a Tuesday.

[MentalVortex]

It just recently came in in our DO and there are mixed reports - most of a negative nature. From my own experience it's a disaster. Until P&L came in I honestly couldn't tell you the last time I claimed OT on my round. I was always finishing around my allotted hours - sometimes 15 mins earlier, sometimes 15 mins later etc, but it all evened out over the week. My delivery has now been paired with one that's affectionately called 'The Beast' in our DO, where the guy on The Beast has been legitimately claiming a heap of OT every day (I believe it has been up to 2 hours per day) to complete his delivery. The results of this P&L have been that I have been out well over an hour above my time every day, while the guy on 'the beast' has actually been finishing up to an hour EARLIER than his allotted time. I have another job and you wouldn't believe the hassle that an extra hour causes, and I have been quite happy in the past to NOT claim OT (still don't want to), where other people in the DO would do every extra minute God sends.

In all fairness to the other guy - he has honestly busted his arse on the delivery because, in his words, he said he knows I'm getting shafted. And I appreciate the fact that he is putting in the extra effort.

It seems that there are issues like this across the DO now. Anyone else having this problem?

Cheers,
MV

[rhino49]

Well - at last the rest of the office is about to enter into the fray. After watching, learning and tweaking for nearly 16 weeks the second half of our revision is about to be implemented.

The first part hasn't exactly settled yet but is working in parts and has not been the disaster seen in some offices nor as problematical as many of us expected.

Firstly, my own duty will now become simplified as my driver joins me on the same rota and I will no longer have to do walk and transport adjustments on his day off - also we will have a dedicated day off cover pair who will be able to learn the duties involved as a permanent rather than ad hoc placement.

Based on problems experienced with the initial revised area back in february those walks are being revisited and tested over the next few weeks, but the revision due in next week has sought to avoid that by having experienced delivery staff fully involved with the planner and going out "pre-testing" to ensure times apportioned by software are achievable.

Two of the duties from the original revision have retained cycles wholly or partly on the route for agreed reasons but all other duties are now HCT or Park and Loop. Distances involved for the HCT's are still in dispute and two are being accelerated out and later collected by van whilst another is presently undergoing a test by outside union officials to verify our H&S reps findings.

Van shares generally have good days and bad days as the mail stream is inconsistent but we have had no walk failures and haven't had to bring in any support from elsewhere.

As with the original revision, the new walks may be explored by cycle for the quiet days at the beginning of the week to get to know the physical walk layout before switching to the designated delivery method.

Several staff have now been made up to permanent full time contracts and part timers (including my driver) have had their hours increased to allow walk partners more IPS time which would have been spent on preparing a second walk.

Fingers crossed :)

[banjo1t]

Our office has now changed over to P&L

And it has confirmed my suspicions, a total disaster!

After 4 weeks from implementation, Majority of walks are still leaving mail, with the odd couple taking all on a Tuesday.
Not many packets being taken out either.

The honeymoon period is nearly over, with management now questioning why you are leaving mail!!
One DIM has quoted flexibility??

Loops are about right, but there's too many of em.

But as usual, you get some idiots coming in early, not taking breaks etc; etc;
The management and the union should insist people do the job correctly,
so that after the 4 week revue, you can see what needs amending/correcting