answer please CWU

[TrueBlueTerrier]

totally agree with you...but it was voted in by the membership.

yes i agree it was voted in ..but how many actually saw past the £1000 revision payment ..that maybe blinded them to what it was they were voting for ..money should not play any part in any agreement ....£1000 is soon gone ..the extra work load demands wont go as quick

If people are really that stooopid then they deserve everything they get to be honest!

it was the CWU who in principle first agreed to this ..and they should have seen how bad this agreement was ..that is what they are there for .

Problem is as I see it, and this is is only my opinion, is that the BT2010 deal was a very good one for the CWU as an organisation but a poor one for individual members (not all members but certainly ordinary MC and Delivery Posties). Its also one that I even blogged about before the vote: - I guess the Union were caught between survival/inclusion and doing there best for members at a certain point in time. I think it came down to a choice to defend the members prospects long term, or to get the best deal possible short term - the jury is still out on whether they made the right choice or not.

http://overpaidunderworked.blogspot.com ... 3A08%3A00Z" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wednesday, 17 March 2010

CONCLUSION


Is this a good deal:


Royal Mail: Of course it is they get everything they have been aiming at especially in deliveries for the last few years. They now have total flexibility in delivery spans, hours of attendance, methods of delivery.. They have also been able to introduce various measuring tools into the performance side of the work, but without being nailed down on the parameters.


They have been able to reach one of Adam Croziers initial targets when he first started in the removal of payments for Door to Door leaflets.


They now have had 2 years of either pay freezes or below inflation rises, now they have 2 years of at best matching inflation rises but more likely less, followed in the third year by a decent rise of 3.5% but with provisions.


CWU: As an organisation I think the CWU have gained the most. They now appear to have a significant place in the decision making process. They now have more inclusion in the various processes that deal with Modernisation and Transformation. More importantly locally they can have more effect on Mail Centre Closures (though they wont be able to stop them) and delivery revisions.


CWU Members – Delivery: The real losers in this deal for the most part. Okay there are improvements in the Maternity and Paternity leave. The delivery supplement being included in future pay rises is also a good step but beyond that they are plenty of concerns for members. At the top of that list is the loss of D2D payments not being offset enough, loss of the ESA compounds this to the effect that the average delivery member on a walking/hybrid duty will be worse off in real money for at least 2 to 3 years.


Also there are important parts of the Transformation Deal that are missing and need to be addressed before we vote on it. The most important part being the measuring tools namely BSI 100, IWT etc. The no limit of delivery span is also of concern if we do not know what the “menu” of options are. What the effect on no cap on D2Ds on the call rate will have on revisions. What the language about length of delivery span will have on the “Cutting Off” procedure.


I think to be honest for deliveries there is an abundance of questions but a dearth of answers.


CWU Members - Non Deliveries Although there are contentious parts in the deal for these members specifically with regards to Mail Centre closures and how far the Union can question the process it is generally a good deal for this section of the Membership.
Posted by Overpaid and Underworked Postman at 12:10

[clashcityrocker]

I think you also have to put the agreement in the context of a looming election, and what would have happened if no agreement had been reached before the arrival of a Tory government.

[madmartin]

totally agree with you...but it was voted in by the membership.

yes i agree it was voted in ..but how many actually saw past the £1000 revision payment ..that maybe blinded them to what it was they were voting for ..money should not play any part in any agreement ....£1000 is soon gone ..the extra work load demands wont go as quick

If people are really that stooopid then they deserve everything they get to be honest!

it was the CWU who in principle first agreed to this ..and they should have seen how bad this agreement was ..that is what they are there for .

I agree with kingofmcr regardless of who voted yes and those who didnt vote it should never have been put to its members. It was a poor deal and the £1000 bonus was put in there so that people wouldnt look at the details and would only see the £1000. The union should have seen beyond this "carrot" and seen the deal for what it really is a stitch up to its members and royal mail workers.
When we were on strike I remember being told we were on strike because Royal mail wanted to bring in unlimited number of D2D's and make saturday's a normal working day so we'd be working later on saturdays and the cwu knew its members didnt want that. So what happend? more D2D and put what ever spin on it you want we are getting paid LESS now for doing MORE work and working till goodness knows when on a saturday.

[Martin Walsh]

Look I think its worth us all understanding what led to the dispute and what the agreement was always going to be based on. Royal Mail stated that they were no longer going to pay for change and that they intended to introduce their business plan without agreement with the CWU. Royal Mail"s plan was to introduce automation , delivery methods , world class mail , geo route , close mail centres and put door to door into workload as well as countless other things.

The union agreed that no office should make any savings until there was a national agreement in place.As is normal within the union some held this line and loads more did not . This led to Royal Mail imposing revision and inturn led to hundreds of local ballots in some parts of Scotland , Bristol , Plymouth and in the whole of London. There were other ballots including a lot of VOCs. Some of these units took as many as 20 days of strike action before the national ballot. Negotations were quite advanced in sercuring an interim agreement which would allow for a period of talks to sercure the bigger agreement. In fact if it had not been for the newsnight leak of the secret Royal Mail document which talked about their plans to crush the CWU then there may not have been a national stike. This led to the union announcing the strike action in that press conference where a lot on here praised the CWU.

Now does anyone seriously believe with or without any agreement that Royal Mail were not going to close mail centres , introduce park and loop , longer saturdays , longer spans , geo route , world class mails , and introuce door to door into workload. Remember in 2005 under the safeguarding the future agreement it talked introducing door to door into workload within a few months , in the cuts which led to the pay and mod dispute door to door into workload was also included. The fact is that Royal Mail were always going to introduce door to door into workload to capture more of that mail . It was always goig to go down to what could the union sercure for this ie the cost. Now the fact it is a permenant addition to basic pay and will now go up in future with pay rises then it does have a value going forward. Now once it is part of basic pay than you have to give pro rata to less than full time staff other wise they will be on an higher hourly rate than full timers.

The CWU got the best deal they could achive in negotations including benefits. Now some agreed with th agreement some did not but in a ballot where only 9 branch"s out of 90 got a no vote majority then the membership who bothered to vote said yes to the deal.

[fishtank]

Look I think its worth us all understanding what led to the dispute and what the agreement was always going to be based on. Royal Mail stated that they were no longer going to pay for change

And did they?
No pay rise in 2009.
A 2% pay rise in 2010....below inflation.
A 1.5% pay rise in 2011...again well below the inflation rate.
The "jewel in the crown"...a 3.5% pay rise 2 years after the agreement linked to a plan still being "on track" which has never even made it out of the station...a pay rise we will never see as part of this agreement.

Lump sums made up from money we were already due under a previous scheme.
Delivery/processing Supplements made up from monies already received from D2D payments cobbled together with allowances/bonuses we were already in receipt of.

You can say a lot of things about the changes we are experiencing but to say that pay negotiations were a victory would be laying it on thicker than Jordan's make-up.

[seeker019]

totally agree with you...but it was voted in by the membership.

Yes it was, BUT most of the changes are focused on Deliveries & people in deliveries were out voted from the outset.

Deliveries don't want extra work/d2d's or lapsing or even a normal service day Saturday
I reckon deliveries voted NO while everyone else voted for the payrise plus bonus.

Deliveries were shafted with no say, as my manager said 'If you don't like it then meet mister door'.

Come on people, where do all the changes take place if not in deliveries, everyone else gets less work we get shafted.

[fishtank]

I reckon deliveries voted NO while everyone else voted for the payrise plus bonus.

Not possible otherwise the Agreement would have been rejected.
Deliveries outnumber everyone else by about 2:1.

[rocky46]

Why does everyone moan about workload and D2Ds,what a bad deal it was and how we've been shafted.I'm one of the very few people it seems that thinks that having a workload that takes me to my time is a good thing because it protects my job.They could send me on a hub run to Bangladesh for all I care I'll still be out the gates for 1:30 wether I'm done or bring a bag back or not.The days of ghosting time are gone and for all the whingers on here, if they brought in clocking in machines and only paid you for the time you worked you'd be sh***ing yourselves and asking for more work!

[pants123]

Look I think its worth us all understanding what led to the dispute and what the agreement was always going to be based on. Royal Mail stated that they were no longer going to pay for change

And did they?
No pay rise in 2009.
A 2% pay rise in 2010....below inflation.
A 1.5% pay rise in 2011...again well below the inflation rate.
The "jewel in the crown"...a 3.5% pay rise 2 years after the agreement linked to a plan still being "on track" which has never even made it out of the station...a pay rise we will never see as part of this agreement.

Lump sums made up from money we were already due under a previous scheme.
Delivery/processing Supplements made up from monies already received from D2D payments cobbled together with allowances/bonuses we were already in receipt of.

You can say a lot of things about the changes we are experiencing but to say that pay negotiations were a victory would be laying it on thicker than Jordan's make-up.

i find this spot on, with what fish tank says,,, the 2010 agreement is made up from previous agreements, so there was no pay rise or better working practices, the 2010 agreement is a joke,, the revisions that have been planned under the geo-route have added work loads not possible to complete in the time allowed, geo-route doesn't put in street names for the revised walks, that had to be done manually.. also walk speeds put into geo route where 4 mph and not 2 mph, with not taking into account real time stops at doors with delivery of packegs taking more time than geo-route allowed.. I Know of no other company that does not pay its people to deliver upto and beyond 6 lots of D2D.. IF YOU INPUT RUBBISH INTO A COMPUTER SYSTEM IT OUTPUTS RUBBISH... thats exactly what the delivery office revisions has produced from geo-route.. RUBBISH... and not real time work loads, capable of being completed in the hours given for a days work... managers can produce these impossible work loads, but not one manager can deliver one,, that managers expect a human postman to do..

[Dorset Plodder]

You know what they say Pants, "If you really want to screw something up....USE A COMPUTER"

[Stormproof]

Look I think its worth us all understanding what led to the dispute and what the agreement was always going to be based on. Royal Mail stated that they were no longer going to pay for change

And did they?
No pay rise in 2009.
A 2% pay rise in 2010....below inflation.
A 1.5% pay rise in 2011...again well below the inflation rate.
The "jewel in the crown"...a 3.5% pay rise 2 years after the agreement linked to a plan still being "on track" which has never even made it out of the station...a pay rise we will never see as part of this agreement.

Lump sums made up from money we were already due under a previous scheme.
Delivery/processing Supplements made up from monies already received from D2D payments cobbled together with allowances/bonuses we were already in receipt of.

You can say a lot of things about the changes we are experiencing but to say that pay negotiations were a victory would be laying it on thicker than Jordan's make-up.

Well said FT

[daveyeff]

I reckon deliveries voted NO while everyone else voted for the payrise plus bonus.

Not possible otherwise the Agreement would have been rejected.
Deliveries outnumber everyone else by about 2:1.

which is why i question the ballot result. everyone i know at my office voted no.....you may say it was impossible to rig,....but was it. i know what i think. conspiricy

[WHITEANT]

Rocky the post office will NEVER bring in clocking in clocking out machines ,why.because then postmen will do there jobs PROPERLY AND THE POST OFFICE wouldnt want you to do that !!Who is it that always get BULLIED postmen who do there jobs properly FACT

[kingofmcr]

IS STILL AWAITING A CWU RESPONSE

[clashcityrocker]

If you want a response from the CWU why don't you address your question to the CWU rather than ask it in a chat room?
If you are as childish in your own DO it is no wonder your managers can piss all over you.