Simple Question Deal or no Deal

[clashcityrocker]

Any chance of a grown-up response from you DH?

[johnnyp]

Any chance of a grown-up response from you DH?

Post removed as it breaks site rules

[fishtank]

3. there needs to be proper presentation of the mail from the MC.

This has been one of the major reasons for failure in the indoor side of our revision.
The revision is based on 85% Walk sequenced mail....we are struggling to get 50%.
Will it improve?....i doubt it as the Mailcentre has been cut to the bone and when they struggle they simply pass the problem done to the D.O.s rather than be seen to fail themselves.

[Martin Walsh]

3. there needs to be proper presentation of the mail from the MC.

This has been one of the major reasons for failure in the indoor side of our revision.
The revision is based on 85% Walk sequenced mail....we are struggling to get 50%.
Will it improve?....i doubt it as the Mailcentre has been cut to the bone and when they struggle they simply pass the problem done to the D.O.s rather than be seen to fail themselves.

Fishtank I think the mail centre issue is caused by the fact that we have two types of mail centre sortation methods. The first is one pass inward and outward and the other is the old system. A ,mail centre cannot perform one inward pass until the whole postcode is sequencing . So currently the mail centres are performing two different systems and some mail centres are performing both in tandem if they process mail for different postcodes.

Yes of course the closure program will effect this as well but inward traffic is only sorted in your own mail centre so unless that is closing it will not have a massive effect.

[fishtank]

Fishtank I think the mail centre issue is caused by the fact that we have two types of mail centre sortation methods. The first is one pass inward and outward and the other is the old system. A ,mail centre cannot perform one inward pass until the whole postcode is sequencing . So currently the mail centres are performing two different systems and some mail centres are performing both in tandem if they process mail for different postcodes.

Yes of course the closure program will effect this as well but inward traffic is only sorted in your own mail centre so unless that is closing it will not have a massive effect.

We didn't pick the 85% figure out of the air dingo,this was the level of Walk Sequenced mail that the MCM in Edinburgh assured us that he could deliver(we have it in writing)...not some time in the future but right now.
If we had known that he couldn't we would never have based our revision on it.
Since it is such a fundamental part of a fully integrated revision it kind of leads back to your original question.

Why did members vote for a revision if they thought it would fail?
One of the answers must be trust that those above them with far more experience of dealing with "mail centre sortation methods" knew what they were talking about when they stood up and promised this,that and the next thing.
That trust is evaporating faster than sweat in the Sahara.

[stokes11eg]

I'm lost---what is Plan 'B'-----------

[DGP1]

I'm lost---what is Plan 'B'-----------

As far as I was told - there is no plan B......................
sorry, I found it

[fishtank]

I'm lost---what is Plan 'B'-----------

The overwhelming opinion at last weeks briefing was that whatever your thoughts on the deal there is no option B.
....Lovejoy Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:47 am

Overwhelming.
Opinion.

[stokes11eg]

It's just Dingo sort of suggested that Dave Ward didn't mention this plan 'B' not so much because there wasn't one, but because he didn't want R/M getting wind of it If there is indeed a plan 'B' someone needs to expose it! I actually suspect it is R/M coming up with this most secretive of plans, because plan 'A,' (the deal of the century)' has gone pear shaped.The power behind the CWU!

[dvbuk55]

I'm lost---what is Plan 'B'-----------

Well if they told us stokesy we would have to be killed Also if you had known what plan B was you wouldn't have voted for plan A..........though if Plan A "2010 and Beyond" was the better of the two then feck knows what Plan B was like

[stokes11eg]

I'm lost---what is Plan 'B'-----------

Well if they told us stokesy we would have to be killed Also if you had known what plan B was you wouldn't have voted for plan A..........though if Plan A "2010 and Beyond" was the better of the two then feck knows what Plan B was like

But plan 'A' is killing us anyway! wonder if they have a plan'C' and 'D', this is getting quite exciting now, maybe there is even a plan'D.G.P' waiting in the wings to be sprung on us!

[Straight4ward]

Option B?

I didn't think that there was much of an option B other than a rather vague statement of intent to attempt to get RM to return to the table if 2010 & Beyond was rejected.
Dingo, I'm not sure that you were convinced that there was alternative on offer, either.

Who really is losing in this agreement.

by dingo » 04 Apr 2010, 19:55
Look a lot have been said about rejecting the deal and how much someone is losing.

Well look if you reject the deal , you have no pay rise and no supplement and no thousand pounds, no improvement in mtsf , no process for dealing with mail centre or rdc closures , no process for dealing with standards , or geo route , no process for dealing with later saturdays. However you might for a time get your 1.67 door to door items ( not sure for how long )

However if you accept the deal lets have look at what you recieve inclusive of the supplement your pay will go up from £347.61 to £393.73 in the third year. Thats an increase of £46.21 for national rate,. Spare me the spin about the third year as it was the union who asked for the review just in case inflation had gone up and the pension blackhole had been sorted.

For outer London the increase will be £50.68 and for inner London it will be £52.35.

In addition you will get the thousand pounds for introducing two revisions including the walk sequencing revision. You will also get two years of the colleague share money. Again spare me the spin that this is our money as it was always dependent of the financial state of the company. If this plan does not go ahead then the future of Royal Mail will be in question not in a way of bankrupcy etc but it cannot survive without government assistance if this plan does not go ahead .

Moreover the deal also includes a shorter working week worth 2.5 % for part timers. It also includes improvements in MTSF , protection of full timers when automation is being introduced, a process for dealing with mail centre enclosures, door to door into workload which means the employer has to put into workload and factor hours in on prep and over the ground time. An agreement on standards which we have never had apart from in mail centres, and an agreement on geo route, an agreement process which commits Royal Mail to 1 in 4 Saturdays off and with union involvement all through it and that delivery duties must take stress, fatigue, and safety into account when they agree duties.

Well in my opinion its a no brainer.

Whats the alternative ? Go out and then consult again with members to see why they reject the agreement and then start negotiating again, in the mean time Royal Mail will simply push on with change and attack where they think they wont get any resistance normally the places with the most part timers

Pasted from <http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 48#p262448>

[dvbuk55]

Instead the union attacked the part timers with the pro rata agreement

[london sub]

Before our office signed the deal, the part time staff were made to believe that everyone would get the same money, regardless of what contract you had. An emergency meeting was raised that any part time staff that got made up to full time would receive the bonus as pro rata. This caused much upset as we were told one thing and got something else instead. Same goes with the walk sequencing, that 85% of mail would be walk sequenced and this was shown on a slide show displaying everything that would happen if moderisation went ahead. So far over the weeks we have had around 65% of walk sequenced and all the overheads on the ips are wrong resulting in missorts when sorting at our frames. The trolleys were mentioned in the team brief explaining that this would take weight off your shoulder. The first week not one person took a trolley out with them, which means nothing has really changed apart from new uniform and new vans that are way smaller than the combos. Some are still breaking our backs and for what? Its not about doing the job properly, the general consensus within our office now is to get the job done as quick as possible without the need of using the tools which are provided for us.Trusting royal mail is a complete joke now, they tell us that you can complete a walk within your allocated time frame, this is unachievable and will be for some time. They are purposely making the duties to big for the doms just to turn round and say you can do it, adding more pressure for us posties to complete it on time. Were traffic figures actually processed into geo route or was it just a case of lets see how long it takes joe bloggs to walk from this area to the next without taking into account how much mail 700 houses get within a week or even a month. Some houses and i only mean SOME, get about 10+ letters every day this is mostly junk but it still takes some time to prep and deliver. Its all guess work in this job and the deal has not been worth the paper its written on, its all about guessing. You wouldn't agree with everything that google maps says if you planned a route and google shown it only takes 30 minutes to get to your destination, when in fact it could take you more like 35-40 minutes due to the time of day that you travel in. You have to have a bit of leeway when its comes to planning walks out, and this is something that has been missed out completley on purpose.

Basic pay may have gone up over the past decade or so, but over time rates have dropped considerably and will continue to drop. Same applies to other perks which have been taken away from some of us over time like the early morning allowance. Over time rates have dropped over the years because royal mail know that its costing them to much money to sustain in the current climate and they also know that alot of people do overtime so its cheaper to cut overtime rates than give someone a full time contract.

Both parties are falling to pieces and the cwu are clinging on for dear life and that maybe one of the reasons why the union have been closer to the royal mail than ever before. Just like the rest of us were all wondering what will be round the next corner. Were already one year into the deal just another two to go and there could be more trouble when the next time both parties get round the table.

[dvbuk55]

Lil' old CWU are hoping to BE at the table and will promise anything to the new employers to be there................so be prepared for the broom handle up the jacksy.