Shropshire Clawback

[BDR]

So Biker Mouse,
For the majority of delivery posties (who dont work next to a mail center), how does this work ? Could you or your Rep or your manager post on here the wording of this clawback con so that next time manager ASKS us what we would like to do we can reply in an informed and adult way. Your Rep may have warned you of accepting clawback but did he do the same for other DOs in the MC area ? No, he said clawback (and being told to go home ) was legal to at least one office which phoned up to ask his advice.
Your Rep is being very ellusive to at least one office on providing them with a worded explaination of how this works.
The "choices" your manager has given you become one choice if you dont work at a DO+MC.
1 - Go home and lose pay.
1 - Go home and lose A/L.

Biker Mouse wrote... "Some posters on here seem to think I agree with clawback and A/L insead of working! I DON'T! I came on here to point out that the management did not "order" us to go home and we were being docked A/L as posted by BDR!"
Management may not have ordered You to go home but that doesnt apply in the rest of postcode area and your Rep went along with it. Posties were sent home and docked A/L and your Rep knows it.

[Biker Mouse]

So Biker Mouse,
For the majority of delivery posties (who dont work next to a mail center), how does this work ? Could you or your Rep or your manager post on here the wording of this clawback con so that next time manager ASKS us what we would like to do we can reply in an informed and adult way. Your Rep may have warned you of accepting clawback but did he do the same for other DOs in the MC area ? No, he said clawback (and being told to go home ) was legal to at least one office which phoned up to ask his advice.
Your Rep is being very ellusive to at least one office on providing them with a worded explaination of how this works.
The "choices" your manager has given you become one choice if you dont work at a DO+MC.
1 - Go home and lose pay.
1 - Go home and lose A/L.

Biker Mouse wrote... "Some posters on here seem to think I agree with clawback and A/L insead of working! I DON'T! I came on here to point out that the management did not "order" us to go home and we were being docked A/L as posted by BDR!"
Management may not have ordered You to go home but that doesnt apply in the rest of postcode area and your Rep went along with it. Posties were sent home and docked A/L and your Rep knows it.

The "choices" your manager has given you become one choice if you dont work at a DO+MC.
1 - Go home and lose pay.
1 - Go home and lose A/L.
THIS CANNOT BE DONE! IT IS ILLEGAL! THE STAFF IN THIS INSTANCE SHOULD HAVE BEEN PAID!

[Biker Mouse]

Quote "Management may not have ordered You to go home but that doesnt apply in the rest of postcode area and your Rep went along with it. Posties were sent home and docked A/L and your Rep knows it."

If that is the case PK needs to be spoken to! Let me know what he said after you have done so!

[fishtank]

The "choices" your manager has given you become one choice if you dont work at a DO+MC.
1 - Go home and lose pay.
1 - Go home and lose A/L.
THIS CANNOT BE DONE! IT IS ILLEGAL! THE STAFF IN THIS INSTANCE SHOULD HAVE BEEN PAID!

Just to clear things up a bit it's not illegal but may be unlawful under section 13 of the Employment Rights Act 1996....I say may be because everything is "maybe" with employment law until you put your case before a tribunal.

The section involved is called the Right not to suffer unauthorised deductions.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/18/section/13" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

13 Right not to suffer unauthorised deductions.

(1)An employer shall not make a deduction from wages of a worker employed by him unless—

(a)the deduction is required or authorised to be made by virtue of a statutory provision or a relevant provision of the worker’s contract, or

(b)the worker has previously signified in writing his agreement or consent to the making of the deduction.

(2)In this section “relevant provision”, in relation to a worker’s contract, means a provision of the contract comprised—

(a)in one or more written terms of the contract of which the employer has given the worker a copy on an occasion prior to the employer making the deduction in question, or

(b)in one or more terms of the contract (whether express or implied and, if express, whether oral or in writing) the existence and effect, or combined effect, of which in relation to the worker the employer has notified to the worker in writing on such an occasion.

(3)Where the total amount of wages paid on any occasion by an employer to a worker employed by him is less than the total amount of the wages properly payable by him to the worker on that occasion (after deductions), the amount of the deficiency shall be treated for the purposes of this Part as a deduction made by the employer from the worker’s wages on that occasion.

(4)Subsection (3) does not apply in so far as the deficiency is attributable to an error of any description on the part of the employer affecting the computation by him of the gross amount of the wages properly payable by him to the worker on that occasion.

(5)For the purposes of this section a relevant provision of a worker’s contract having effect by virtue of a variation of the contract does not operate to authorise the making of a deduction on account of any conduct of the worker, or any other event occurring, before the variation took effect.

(6)For the purposes of this section an agreement or consent signified by a worker does not operate to authorise the making of a deduction on account of any conduct of the worker, or any other event occurring, before the agreement or consent was signified.

(7)This section does not affect any other statutory provision by virtue of which a sum payable to a worker by his employer but not constituting “wages” within the meaning of this Part is not to be subject to a deduction at the instance of the employer.

If members are not able to work due to the Royal Mail’s decision to close the Delivery office temporarily, this will in effect be a period of lay-off. In this situation you should be paid your normal wages during the period of closure, unless there is a contractual provision allowing for unpaid lay-off (clawback agreement) which there isn't, or the members enter into an individual agreement with management to being sent home without pay which is basically what claw back is..

In the absence of the employees’ consent, or some form of claw back agreement, a failure to pay them would amount to an unauthorised deduction from their wages which could also be considered Breach of Contract..

[Biker Mouse]

The "choices" your manager has given you become one choice if you dont work at a DO+MC.
1 - Go home and lose pay.
1 - Go home and lose A/L.
THIS CANNOT BE DONE! IT IS ILLEGAL! THE STAFF IN THIS INSTANCE SHOULD HAVE BEEN PAID!

Just to clear things up a bit it's not illegal but may be unlawful under section 13 of the Employment Rights Act 1996....I say may be because everything is "maybe" with employment law until you put your case before a tribunal.

The section involved is called the Right not to suffer unauthorised deductions.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/18/section/13" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

13 Right not to suffer unauthorised deductions.

(1)An employer shall not make a deduction from wages of a worker employed by him unless—

(a)the deduction is required or authorised to be made by virtue of a statutory provision or a relevant provision of the worker’s contract, or

(b)the worker has previously signified in writing his agreement or consent to the making of the deduction.

(2)In this section “relevant provision”, in relation to a worker’s contract, means a provision of the contract comprised—

(a)in one or more written terms of the contract of which the employer has given the worker a copy on an occasion prior to the employer making the deduction in question, or

(b)in one or more terms of the contract (whether express or implied and, if express, whether oral or in writing) the existence and effect, or combined effect, of which in relation to the worker the employer has notified to the worker in writing on such an occasion.

(3)Where the total amount of wages paid on any occasion by an employer to a worker employed by him is less than the total amount of the wages properly payable by him to the worker on that occasion (after deductions), the amount of the deficiency shall be treated for the purposes of this Part as a deduction made by the employer from the worker’s wages on that occasion.

(4)Subsection (3) does not apply in so far as the deficiency is attributable to an error of any description on the part of the employer affecting the computation by him of the gross amount of the wages properly payable by him to the worker on that occasion.

(5)For the purposes of this section a relevant provision of a worker’s contract having effect by virtue of a variation of the contract does not operate to authorise the making of a deduction on account of any conduct of the worker, or any other event occurring, before the variation took effect.

(6)For the purposes of this section an agreement or consent signified by a worker does not operate to authorise the making of a deduction on account of any conduct of the worker, or any other event occurring, before the agreement or consent was signified.

(7)This section does not affect any other statutory provision by virtue of which a sum payable to a worker by his employer but not constituting “wages” within the meaning of this Part is not to be subject to a deduction at the instance of the employer.

If members are not able to work due to the Royal Mail’s decision to close the Delivery office temporarily, this will in effect be a period of lay-off. In this situation you should be paid your normal wages during the period of closure, unless there is a contractual provision allowing for unpaid lay-off (clawback agreement) which there isn't, or the members enter into an individual agreement with management to being sent home without pay which is basically what claw back is..

In the absence of the employees’ consent, or some form of claw back agreement, a failure to pay them would amount to an unauthorised deduction from their wages which could also be considered Breach of Contract..

Brilliant! Clear as day! Managers and Rep should be ashamed of themselves!

[BDR]

I`m looking forward to hearing managements excuses for getting this wrong. OK some posties did a deal and if their happy with that fair enough, others got shafted. Personally, I think management hit on a good money saving + boost my bonus scam by using the weather as an excuse to cancel deliveries. This weeks conditions under foot are no different to last week but no suspensions this week - too close to Christmas to keep the scam going. Completely cancelling deliveries, when I walk past my customers houses to get to the office, is ridiculous and my customers know it. I almost feel like complaining to Postcom that these suspensions of deliveries are breach of license re: Universal Service, because there are plenty of drops on my round I could deliver to, even if the weather was far worse than this. (If I did complain should I do it as a postman or customer ? )
I think we are roughly in sort-off agreement over this so I`m switching off my computer so I can enjoy Christmas ( I was deluded about going to North Korea to escape it ). Love You Lots, BDR xxxxx.

[Biker Mouse]

I`m looking forward to hearing managements excuses for getting this wrong. OK some posties did a deal and if their happy with that fair enough, others got shafted. Personally, I think management hit on a good money saving + boost my bonus scam by using the weather as an excuse to cancel deliveries. This weeks conditions under foot are no different to last week but no suspensions this week - too close to Christmas to keep the scam going. Completely cancelling deliveries, when I walk past my customers houses to get to the office, is ridiculous and my customers know it. I almost feel like complaining to Postcom that these suspensions of deliveries are breach of license re: Universal Service, because there are plenty of drops on my round I could deliver to, even if the weather was far worse than this. (If I did complain should I do it as a postman or customer ? )
I think we are roughly in sort-off agreement over this so I`m switching off my computer so I can enjoy Christmas ( I was deluded about going to North Korea to escape it ). Love You Lots, BDR xxxxx.

2" snow Friday = no deliveries
-9c Sat = No deliveries
5" snow Tues ...you're going out! Makes no sense!
Finally caught up with my backlog today and I'm knackered and my fingers have split to f*ck!
Agree with your post here!
Enjoy your Xmas!
Biker Mouse from Mars.