New Clawback Scam ?

[Pat Ostman]

To be fair to dingo Pat,he can't be held responsible for what's going on in the North East.

Yes but our dear Dingo lives under a rock where the population believe the Union protects all, not just London. There I said it

[DGP1]

To be fair to dingo Pat,he can't be held responsible for what's going on in the North East.

Yep, he's a London man, you know - everything is our fault and it's London that always rides to our help

[Brainache]

Thanks for all the replies.
So what is the general consensus about tomorrow morning if deliveries are suspended again. "I am willing to work my hours but if you send me home - No Clawback"... With Christmas Day fast approaching I can imaging that days like last week, which were treacherous and suspended, will now become "not so bad " and "deliver but be careful".

[Pat Ostman]

Thanks for all the replies.
So what is the general consensus about tomorrow morning if deliveries are suspended again. "I am willing to work my hours but if you send me home - No Clawback"... With Christmas Day fast approaching I can imaging that days like last week, which were treacherous and suspended, will now become "not so bad " and "deliver but be careful".

Technically and legally, no clawback sir :-)

[Throgg]

Throgg wrote:
Throgg wrote:
Throgg wrote:
Brains wrote:
Heard a rumour that if deliveries are suspended in delivery-only office you are given the options;
Go home after prep and lose half day AL, or
Get in your car a drive to nearest mail center to work your time.
If its too dangerous to deliver mail to houses near DO how can driving 5 -10-15 miles to mail center be viable ?
Even if they lay-on transport, my own personel risk assesment would say "No - Severe Weather, only travel if absolutely nessesary".
Replies before Monday morning please. Knowledge is Power.
Without wishing in anyway to sound rude but are you saying? You want to be paid to sit at home? for once RM appear to be being fair.

Are Royal Mail exempt from employment law?

If you turn up for work and the building is closed or management say there is no work, for example, deliveries are suspended due to bad weather, they cannot deduct your wages, force you take a days annual leave, or clawback the time. Check the governments website for your rights!
Your employment contract is what rules here... I don't have mine to hand but I'd find it inconceivable that weather wasn't mentioned or provision made for it!

Employment LAW is what rules here. Your contract can not override law. All contracts are governed by emploment law.

Employment law states what the minimum legal requirements are but your contract is what your governed by.... I'm assuming here that RM's contract of Employment for fills the minimum legal requirements. hence RM are under no obligation to pay anything other than 'Statutory sick pay' but our contract of employment provides us with a better deal i.e. 6 months full pay etc etc.


Employment law minimum states that they cannot clawback the time. If your contract states they can it is in violation of employment law.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... /DG_184199
Where's the bit about clawback?

The term clawback is not used, which is where things are probably becoming confusing.

If your employer is attempting to clawback time they claim is owed to them, then in my opinion they have forced you to take unpaid leave previously, which they cannot do.

If they wish you to take annual leave they must give you notice, equivalent to twice the time off in leave you are taking, i.e. if they require you to take one annual leave day they must give you a minimum two days notice.

It can be hard trying to find information on this topic. Most legal sites only deal with employees who can't get to work because of bad weather.

[POSTMAN]

Just had a thought after being reminded about the Jan LTB from Wardy and HQ.
Has anyone,a rep or anyone who is heavily involved in their branch recieved a copy of it from their branch?
If branches are doing their job and we know of some 'alledgley' who are not is that HQ's fault?
Do the members who are adults need to be reminded of various things so many times in a year.

So tbf HQ are not at fault here,it's the branches.

[fishtank]

What you have to be careful with is that with Employment Law/Civil Law there is really no enforcement body like the police with Criminal Law who can pop round to your employer and give them a slap.
No SWAT team is going to crash through your DOM's office window and haul him away in cuffs.

The onus is really on you to seek legal recourse through an Employment Tribunal,hopefully with the help of the union and it can be an expensive and time consuming business.
It's often not the protection that people think it is.

[Wessex]

Two or three years ago I was not paid for half an hour that I went over due to icy weather and I extended.At that office I never did any overtime again.At Christmas i unilaterally removed my goodwill , the Dom went garrity but I stood my ground,At my new office I have received o/t payments for extending so far during this icy period but if they dont pay me at any stage I will again withdraw my goodwill.

[whitemoor66]

What you have to be careful with is that with Employment Law/Civil Law there is really no enforcement body like the police with Criminal Law who can pop round to your employer and give them a slap.
No SWAT team is going to crash through your DOM's office window and haul him away in cuffs.

The onus is really on you to seek legal recourse through an Employment Tribunal,hopefully with the help of the union and it can be an expensive and time consuming business.
It's often not the protection that people think it is.

If you quote employment law and don't let your arse cave in from intimidation you will probably be OK. As for your future, who knows?

[Indy]

What you have to be careful with is that with Employment Law/Civil Law there is really no enforcement body like the police with Criminal Law who can pop round to your employer and give them a slap.
No SWAT team is going to crash through your DOM's office window and haul him away in cuffs.

The onus is really on you to seek legal recourse through an Employment Tribunal,hopefully with the help of the union and it can be an expensive and time consuming business.
It's often not the protection that people think it is.

hmmmmm, I've never NOT been paid for O/T that I've done even if it has meant a bit of nagging to get it. I wondered if I was seriously hacked off with not being paid a significant amount over say a week if I'd issue a small claims court writ against RM for non-payment? and if it would succeed legally?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

[http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/ ... /DG_184199
Where's the bit about clawback?

Workplace closures
If no work is available to you (eg the office has closed and you do not work at home) then your employer cannot dock your pay or require you to take annual leave.

[Martin Walsh]

Bob Gibson sent out on the 3rd of December in Line with previous years and LTBs issued we have not agreed to any clawback arrangements. The following LTBs was issued with this document

1. 6th January 2010 008/2010 which attached the LTB 95/2009 6th Febraury 2009 and 146/2009 issued on 20th February 2009 regarding severe weather conditions .

The LTB dated 6th February 2009 stated

CWU HQ are recieving numerous reports and enquires that as a result of the severe weather conditions, Royal Mail managers are attempting to insist that in cases where our members are being sent home early from work due to unsafe condtions for delivery , collections , road services etc the pay and modernisation agreement and in particular the flexibility clause within the agreement is applicable.

There is no provision within the Pay and Modernisation agreement for the clawback of any time as a result of what is tantamount to an act of god ie severe weather conditions that the UK is currently experiencing.

We have had further reports that some mangers are attempting to have our members take annual leave , make good the time, or even in some cases special leave C where they could not attend work through no fault of their own. Once again our reps should be clear that this has not been agreed with the postal department at CWU HQs.


The union has raised this management abuses with senior management. In the mean time all members should raise any abuses with the ir rep / area rep.

[Pat Ostman]

CWU HQ are recieving numerous reports and enquires but are doing nothing.

Fixed that for you.

My rep and area rep both notified. Both think they can do it.

So again Dingo, what do we pay our subs for?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YawagQ6lLrA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[POSTMAN]

CWU HQ are recieving numerous reports and enquires but are doing nothing.

Fixed that for you.

My rep and area rep both notified. Both think they can do it.

So again Dingo, what do we pay our subs for?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YawagQ6lLrA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Your rep and area rep are fick then!

[Pat Ostman]

CWU HQ are recieving numerous reports and enquires but are doing nothing.

Fixed that for you.

My rep and area rep both notified. Both think they can do it.

So again Dingo, what do we pay our subs for?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YawagQ6lLrA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Your rep and area rep are fick then!

Ok, we must be f****d over then, probably deserve it as well.