New Clawback Scam ?

Post by **Lincox** » 19 Dec 2010, 13:06

Dingo, I agree with your posting. However again the workers are being left short by the CWU heirarchy. They are well aware of the local abuse that is taking place by management in respect of the sever weather situation and should have stamped on this immediately. An email was sent to Dave ? over a week ago, stating the problems that were occurring in the North east and asking him to make a statement regarding the issues of clawback, banking of hours, use of ALE. To date this email has remained unanswered and no statement from the union. Your comments please.

Post by **flaminmoses** » 19 Dec 2010, 13:18

DGP1 wrote:
Indy wrote: I've never seen my job at RM as being a 'them and us' situation we're all working for the same ends on the same team. Just as I expect to be treated with respect I expect to treat my manager(s) with the same in return.
The rampant bullying must not have reached your office yet then, I (and the rest of my office) are treated like crap by management and as a result we treat them with the contempt that they deserve (I think those in NI and Scotland understand this better than most).

we had all the s**t during the strike.

this case is quite simple.
if they want you to go to a mail centre after prepping then either get them to take you and bring you back in time or get expenses for travelling per mile.
in this weather i wouldnt risk using the car as your insurance may not pay you out under such circumstances.

Post by **flaminmoses** » 19 Dec 2010, 13:20

also any sign of a dodgy road when you are being taken there make sure the manager is driving saftley...ie.not too fast.

its your health at risk if you go skidding down a hill etc.

Throgg · Post by **Throgg** » 19 Dec 2010, 13:35

Throgg wrote:
Throgg wrote:
Brains wrote:
Heard a rumour that if deliveries are suspended in delivery-only office you are given the options;
Go home after prep and lose half day AL, or
Get in your car a drive to nearest mail center to work your time.
If its too dangerous to deliver mail to houses near DO how can driving 5 -10-15 miles to mail center be viable ?
Even if they lay-on transport, my own personel risk assesment would say "No - Severe Weather, only travel if absolutely nessesary".
Replies before Monday morning please. Knowledge is Power.
Without wishing in anyway to sound rude but are you saying? You want to be paid to sit at home? for once RM appear to be being fair.

Are Royal Mail exempt from employment law?

If you turn up for work and the building is closed or management say there is no work, for example, deliveries are suspended due to bad weather, they cannot deduct your wages, force you take a days annual leave, or clawback the time. Check the governments website for your rights!
Your employment contract is what rules here... I don't have mine to hand but I'd find it inconceivable that weather wasn't mentioned or provision made for it!

Employment LAW is what rules here. Your contract can not override law. All contracts are governed by emploment law.

Employment law states what the minimum legal requirements are but your contract is what your governed by.... I'm assuming here that RM's contract of Employment for fills the minimum legal requirements. hence RM are under no obligation to pay anything other than 'Statutory sick pay' but our contract of employment provides us with a better deal i.e. 6 months full pay etc etc.

Employment law minimum states that they cannot clawback the time. If your contract states they can it is in violation of employment law.

whitemoor66 · Post by **whitemoor66** » 19 Dec 2010, 14:24

Throgg is 100% right on this one. It is the difference to being an employee and self employed. No work for the employee, you will still get paid. If you work for a company on a self employed basis and they have no work for you, too bad, you won't get paid. As has been stated before employment law overrides any personal employment contract.

Biker Mouse · Post by **Biker Mouse** » 19 Dec 2010, 14:34

Throgg wrote:
Throgg wrote:
Throgg wrote:
Brains wrote:
Heard a rumour that if deliveries are suspended in delivery-only office you are given the options;
Go home after prep and lose half day AL, or
Get in your car a drive to nearest mail center to work your time.
If its too dangerous to deliver mail to houses near DO how can driving 5 -10-15 miles to mail center be viable ?
Even if they lay-on transport, my own personel risk assesment would say "No - Severe Weather, only travel if absolutely nessesary".
Replies before Monday morning please. Knowledge is Power.
Without wishing in anyway to sound rude but are you saying? You want to be paid to sit at home? for once RM appear to be being fair.

Are Royal Mail exempt from employment law?

If you turn up for work and the building is closed or management say there is no work, for example, deliveries are suspended due to bad weather, they cannot deduct your wages, force you take a days annual leave, or clawback the time. Check the governments website for your rights!
Your employment contract is what rules here... I don't have mine to hand but I'd find it inconceivable that weather wasn't mentioned or provision made for it!

Employment LAW is what rules here. Your contract can not override law. All contracts are governed by emploment law.

Employment law states what the minimum legal requirements are but your contract is what your governed by.... I'm assuming here that RM's contract of Employment for fills the minimum legal requirements. hence RM are under no obligation to pay anything other than 'Statutory sick pay' but our contract of employment provides us with a better deal i.e. 6 months full pay etc etc.

Employment law minimum states that they cannot clawback the time. If your contract states they can it is in violation of employment law.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/ ... /DG_184199" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Where's the bit about clawback?

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 19 Dec 2010, 15:39

Lincox wrote:Dingo, I agree with your posting. However again the workers are being left short by the CWU heirarchy. They are well aware of the local abuse that is taking place by management in respect of the sever weather situation and should have stamped on this immediately. An email was sent to Dave ? over a week ago, stating the problems that were occurring in the North east and asking him to make a statement regarding the issues of clawback, banking of hours, use of ALE. To date this email has remained unanswered and no statement from the union. Your comments please.

An LTB came out on Thursday 2nd of December regarding the bad weather and no agreement to claw back etc. it has been posted on this site under a different thread.

Post by **Lincox** » 19 Dec 2010, 16:55

Report this postReply with quoteRe: New Clawback Scam ?
by dingo » Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:39,pm

Lincox wrote:
Dingo, I agree with your posting. However again the workers are being left short by the CWU heirarchy. They are well aware of the local abuse that is taking place by management in respect of the sever weather situation and should have stamped on this immediately. An email was sent to Dave ? over a week ago, stating the problems that were occurring in the North east and asking him to make a statement regarding the issues of clawback, banking of hours, use of ALE. To date this email has remained unanswered and no statement from the union. Your comments please.

An LTB came out on Thursday 2nd of December regarding the bad weather and no agreement to claw back etc. it has been posted on this site under a different thread.

Dingo, I have been through all of the LTBs on the CWU website. I cannot find an LTB that relates to no agreement to clawback etc. The only LTBs I can find are regarding the spikies and Shoe Chains which to date we have still not got in our office, which has been badley effected by the recent snow. There is not an LTB dated 2nd December only in respect of Openreach Severe Weather Agreement. Can you please advise further.

Post by **Lincox** » 19 Dec 2010, 17:07

Dingo, I have just found a CWU letter from Dave Ward dated 7th January 2010 in respect of severe weather and managers abusing the Pay and Modernisation Agreement by imposing Clawback, etc etc due to the weather conditions last winter. We have since had the 2010 and Beyond Agreement and I do think Dave Ward should now reitereate what he was saying under the last Agreement and make sure that there is either a communication comes out to the workplace or an LTB confirming that the status quo still exists under the new agreement, so that we can all face these managers, that are trying this on in order to enhance their bonuses, and make sure that they are under no illusion as to what they can or cannot do.

Post by **POSTMAN** » 19 Dec 2010, 17:11

There is nothing regarding clawback on there or on here for 'this lot' of bad weather.
What we have on the site is an email to one of our guys from i think Bob Gibson stating there is no claw back.

Post by **Lincox** » 19 Dec 2010, 17:15

This is why there is so much distrust with the senior executive of the cwu, and the 2010 and beyond agreement that they signed up to, albeit ratified by a majority of union members. This is such an important issue that it should have been sorted out weeks ago.

Post by **coxie** » 19 Dec 2010, 17:18

dados wrote:
POSTMAN wrote:
dados wrote:our clawback,come in 1 hr earlier each day until hrs owed are paid back,indoor work,fair enough
You've been on this site long enough to know you're being mugged,so why..........
the rep was there he agreed to it,i must add that this applied to ppl who went home on their own accord,there was plenty of mailsort for those who stayed,so are we being mugged by management & a rep who relishes any fight with management on a daily basis?

Reps can agree to it but only if its optional, reps can't agree to break the law mate. If your rep has agreed it then it's void because it is breaking the law. If your rep agreed you could all go out and rob a bank does that mean its ok?

Pat Ostman · Post by **Pat Ostman** » 19 Dec 2010, 17:23

Claw back in North East RAMPANT. Union rep is pathetic, the CWU area does nothing and people, including myself, have had a clawback (against my will) and some have lost annual leave. The office was closed for health and safety reasons.

I have placed in a grievence and fully expect a management backlash. I stand alone, not united. My union? Missing in action, although they remember to take my subs for f**k all each week. I might as well represent myself as once again the CWU is nowhere to be seen. It's one thing expecting US to hand in an old email by Bob Gibson to actually representing the people that pay your wages, without fail, each week.

Are you pround of your CWU dingo, or just the gravy train?

Anyway, thanks for watching my back CWU. YOU REALLY DESERVE THE MONEY EACH WEEK.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 19 Dec 2010, 17:35

To be fair to dingo Pat,he can't be held responsible for what's going on in the North East.

Post by **Lincox** » 19 Dec 2010, 17:38

Pat, the minute, no I mean the second I see any form of clawback,b, of h, AOE or any other attempt to penalise me for Royal Mails own doings, I will be with you and putting in a grievance, supported by myself if that is the way it has to be. If my union cannot stand up for me, then who can.