CWU Waste of time.

[fishtank]

HQ clearly believes we are in a declining industry. Parts of it may still be profitable but they believe the industry is in decline.
How do we respond to that? They put before us an agreement that sought to address that problem, and the problem of maintaing full time employment in a declining and/or less profitable letters market.
Only someone with an overall understanding of the situation can propose a solution. (Otherwise the solution would have been - start early, use your car, doorstep and run round to finish early - and it would have been passed with a much bigger majority than 2010 and Beyond)
This is where we are, this is a/the only way forward.
We voted for it.
Do all the members have their heads in the sand - no, not all but more than is preferable.

Reading your post it would seem that you believe that the CWU came up with 2010 and Beyond but that aside and presuming i buy into whether it is a viable,sustainable plan....unfortunately it still comes back to the same question....why are the members leaving?
This question will come back to haunt us Clash because it overrides everything.
The ordinary members i have come into personal contact with,(and i'm choosing my words carefully) to a man/woman think that 2010 and Beyond is ....a pile of shite.
Some don't even like it that much.
Are they all blind/stupid/intransigent?

[Big Daz]

Let me tell you a view from a ex member at my D.O

Saturdays to become a normal working day was a major factor in his choice to pull out.

I know a lot of OPG's/CWU members at my D.O are unhappy with the DTD changes, going to take a long time for that issue to go away.

[Ahebban]

Over the years CWU Members have grown used to Reps/Area Reps etc being able to win better pay, terms and conditions (locally and nationally) with minimal commitment from members (and I am not being flippant about strike action). The last two major Agreements, Pay & Mod and BT 2010 & Beyond, saw a major shift in the balance of power in the workplace. DOMs and Reps were no longer to be perceived as natural enemies but were now expected to address problems through dialogue and local agreement. Members were distrustful of this approach, fearing that their voice would be lost in the effort to appease Royal Mail and Agreements. The loss of D2D payments did a lot of damage to the reputation of the leadership, because the communication about the 'pros and cons' were not clearly defined at the time. Even now within my own delivery office there is still bitterness about that particular aspect over all else about BT 2010. The 'Job and Knock' culture of SDD is still prominent in the minds of many, and is seen as the last 'proper' Agreement won by the CWU, even though it had its critics at the time.

The expectation is always going to exceed what is actually achievable. The protestations of Members, reflected in the anger and disappointment in the BT 2010 Agreement, undoubtedly did damage to the CWU as whole and has resulted in scores of Members leaving the CWU. That will not have escaped the attention of Royal Mail, and will no doubt figure in future plans for the company. Royal Mail will not wish to see the CWU disappear completely, just have it weakened sufficiently to prevent serious confrontation to its plans.

It is for the CWU leadership to regain the trust, confidence and respect of former members in order to encourage them back to the fold. There is not long before 'privatization' will be upon us, nor the 'negotiated pay element' of the 3rd year of BT 2010. The CWU will need to act quickly and decisively to win the hearts and minds of the postal workforce and prepare to fight privatization and future agreements from a position of strength and not weakness.

While the CWU may not be the force of old, my membership and commitment to the CWU will remain solid - better to have a union (however poor it may be perceived) than to have no union at all to defend jobs, terms and conditions.

[Lincox]

My problem with the CWU is that it does not react quickly or if at all to immediate problems. Typically and topically now we have the severe weather fiasco where those involved do not know whether they will be paid, hours clawed back, time taken from holidays etc etc. We know what is being put out on this forum and the government website advices, but none of this is stopping local managers making up their own rules. The top brass of the union should have stepped in immediately, sent out directives to all union members involved, and forced Moya Greene to make an immediate announcement so that these local managers have no say in what is going to happen. Those sort of reactions will bring membership back to the CWU. Not spouting off about Privitisation in nearly every LTB that is released and all over every communication they send out. Most members are not motivated by political posturing but what is happening to their pay, working conditions now.

[sodiium]

Its because of the union we are actually well paid for the job we do. If you dont believe me have a look at other 'unskilled' jobs & have see their rates of pay. We have decent work conditions & sick pay etc blah blah blah.

I'm one of the few that actually benefited from the last rm / cwu deal but i still wont join the union til i'm made up to f/t. Thats because in my perception (& those in my DO & at the MC) f/timers get a better deal than p/timers. So i wont be parting with £1.8x to be treated like a second class member but i do acknowledge the good (& sometimes not so good) work the union does for its members.

[Judgee]

Reasons to leave the union:

1, You pay money to get crap deals thrust upon you and told that thats the best they can get so tough poop!


Reasons to stay in the union:

1, Ermmm, hmmm oh yeah you get a diary for £150!!!!

[fishtank]

I know a lot of OPG's/CWU members at my D.O are unhappy with the DTD changes, going to take a long time for that issue to go away.

I would suggest Daz that rather than go away,that issue will only play more and more on members minds as the number of D2D increase...and if we see a day specific..
Now maybe if they could get that supplement into basic pay....

[Lincox]

What difference would that make Fishtank apart from a few more pennies for those who do overtime. Its about 52p per hour less approx 31% tax and ni so nett about 36p per hour. You would have to do 10 hours to get £3.60. Compare that to what RM have achieved by getting us to do 5 D2Ds a week. A bum deal all round and not much sign of saving full time jobs.

[clashcityrocker]

why are the members leaving?
This question will come back to haunt us Clash because it overrides everything. ?

The membership is falling for 2 main reasons. (IMHO)

1. The increase in part-time workers is one major factor.
We have 2 in our office who started the day after they left school and have worked for RM ever since. I doubt we will ever see that sort of thing again.
Most of the new entrants have little interest in a long-term career in RM so consequently have little interest in the big agreements between CWU and RM. Not a great surprise that the turnout was low.
The CWU has been very poor (IMHO), and probably so have many other trade unions in responding to the change in the workforce.
The strength of the trade union movement used to be in the heavy industries - coal, steel etc. They were very macho. It was all about full time male employment.
Now they are having to represent part time female workers.
Take a look at the top of our union. When our General Secretary is a p/t female (from a BME background) then we might begin to see a union responding to major social changes.
Take a look at your next Branch meeting. How many female reps? How many reps are p/t?

2. The CWU has been very poor at communicating with the rank and file.
Their basic message, if they were being totally honest, would be:
We are in the s**t. The industry is declining. We can't fight mechanisation without looking like dinosaurs. We can't fight privatisation if we fight mechanisation. We can't fight the MC "rationalisation" plan. We are going to lose s**t loads of jobs (again). The best we can hope for is ensuring your local rep retains some influence.
The problem there is the local rep is only as strong as HIS members and with no percieved leadership at the top, that support drains away.

[fishtank]

What difference would that make Fishtank apart from a few more pennies for those who do overtime. Its about 52p per hour less approx 31% tax and ni so nett about 36p per hour. You would have to do 10 hours to get £3.60. Compare that to what RM have achieved by getting us to do 5 D2Ds a week. A bum deal all round and not much sign of saving full time jobs.

It will improve basic pay....it needs it.
It will improve your overtime rate......it needs it even more.
It will improve your pension........enough said.
It will remove the uncertainty that the supplement will disappear and be repackaged as something new and wonderful in future pay negotiations....like that's never happened before.

Finally and this is the interesting one....i believe it would help members to move on.
I think as long as the Delivery Supplement is there...it will be a focus for resentment.

[fishtank]

why are the members leaving?
This question will come back to haunt us Clash because it overrides everything. ?

The membership is falling for 2 main reasons. (IMHO)

1. The increase in part-time workers is one major factor.
We have 2 in our office who started the day after they left school and have worked for RM ever since. I doubt we will ever see that sort of thing again.
Most of the new entrants have little interest in a long-term career in RM so consequently have little interest in the big agreements between CWU and RM. Not a great surprise that the turnout was low.
The CWU has been very poor (IMHO), and probably so have many other trade unions in responding to the change in the workforce.
The strength of the trade union movement used to be in the heavy industries - coal, steel etc. They were very macho. It was all about full time male employment.
Now they are having to represent part time female workers.
Take a look at the top of our union. When our General Secretary is a p/t female (from a BME background) then we might begin to see a union responding to major social changes.
Take a look at your next Branch meeting. How many female reps? How many reps are p/t?

2. The CWU has been very poor at communicating with the rank and file.
Their basic message, if they were being totally honest, would be:
We are in the s**t. The industry is declining. We can't fight mechanisation without looking like dinosaurs. We can't fight privatisation if we fight mechanisation. We can't fight the MC "rationalisation" plan. We are going to lose s**t loads of jobs (again). The best we can hope for is ensuring your local rep retains some influence.
The problem there is the local rep is only as strong as HIS members and with no percieved leadership at the top, that support drains away.

Agree with every word.

[DirtyHarry]

The CWU should not have agreed to make Saturday a normal working day. There was, is, absolutely no need for that at all.

The CWU should not have agreed to increase the amount of non-essential crap dumped on us, D2Ds.

The CWU most certainly should not have agreed to scrapping the payment for delivering non-essential crap, D2Ds.

Nobody opposes mechanisation per se, it's the whittling away of our working conditions until their down to the very bare bones, and with what seems like the blessing of a CWU hierarchy with a vested self-interest, that's what rankles with the majority of postal workers.

And the reviews/changes to the way we work, for any CWU official to deny the link of Royal Mail's cost-cutting programme, going non-stop since 2003 and showing absolutely no signs of abating, to these changes to the way we work, well, that's what I call the classic "head in the sand" scenario, I really do.

There never ever was, nor is there now in the present, any remotely good reason why any self-respecting trade union would sit down with an overbearing, arrogant, disrespectful of it's workers, company like Royal Mail, and agree to present a document such as the 2010 & Beyond tripe to it's membership, never ever.

[sodiium]

The union (must know) & the workforce need to understand we are going to lose loads of jobs during the modernization program. This has happened in any industry that brought in new technology to improve efficiency. It will happen here & the only thing the union can do try negotiate better t&c of its members. They can help members get better payoffs and maybe stem further job losses a bit longer. In the end these jobs will have to go.

IMHO it will mean less time indoors for posties & longer deliveries assuming we want to keep f/t duties. In m/c its going to mean less staff are needed until management find out these magic machines cant read xmas card.

[DirtyHarry]

All the signs are, that mechanisation will not improve efficiency one iota.
Any mechanisation introduced will be subverted by, of all people, the bosses.
The bosses will insist that mechanisation is introduced alongside reductions in staffing levels ,out of all proportion to the percieved benefits that mechanisation brings.
Ergo, status quo, nothing changes, not really.

[MinisterofCucumber]

Has the proportion of postal workers who are members of the CWU been going down?

If not, the slimy bastards on full-time release will not be worrying as decline in membership will just be matching the reduction in workforce.

Has anyone got the percentage figures?