Greene hits out at Royal Mail criticism

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk its a London only deal and we are all getting our money for nothing !!! You certainly should take that chip of your shoulder.

Self starter revisons are widespread throughout the UK. Remember there is not enough planners in the UK for every office to have a geo route revison , delivery methods revison . Equally not every area is having walk sequencing this year.

If you do not have the planners in place than IWT only revisons are taking place. They are called self starters and cover all parts of the UK.

[dvbuk55]

Has anyone north of Watford had one of these self starter revisions? Or is it something made up to get a quick £200 for FA. I'd really like someone to explain where self starter revisions fall in the 2010 agreement...............there was delivery methods and the WSM but self starter? wtf does it mean

I don't know what you're getting at it can't be another London thing Maybe dingo is only looking at London and is basing his optimism on that. Over here in NI we're being crapped on again (although my revision has been put off because the planner screwed it up by not inputing the figures correctly and then not allowing any time for anything but prep and delivery).

I'm sorry to disappoint you DGP but no planner is going to allow time in the revision for that sort of thing...............you have 40 minutes a day and you are just going to have to fit it in there

[Lincox]

Well Dingo as you do not wish to answer any of my questions and I respect your right not to, I would just like to say that you have confirmed in your notes to others that Royal Mail are using this as a cost cutting exercise and not modernisation. I would also say that the culture of pushing everyone to the top or 100% BSI is a stick with no carrot at the end as previously stated, and we all know that if everyone reached 100%BSI it would not stay at that level as far as this current management are concerned. They are on the gravy boat and until they are removed from this company and we have a management that is paid on real results and using proper entrepreneurial skills to CREATE real growth and jobs in this industry, we will be stuck in no mans land, relying on natural growth in the packets market and DSA market to crawl along at the bottom of the wood pile, with a continual attack on wages, pensions, health and safety and everything else that goes along with hatchet style management.

[POSTMAN]

Cheers for the updates Dingo.

[POSTMAN]

Has anyone north of Watford had one of these self starter revisions? Or is it something made up to get a quick £200 for FA. I'd really like someone to explain where self starter revisions fall in the 2010 agreement...............there was delivery methods and the WSM but self starter? wtf does it mean

Is this what Daz is having? Self starter that is.

[fishtank]

You have to see this as the rest of the country sees it and to be honest it doesn't matter how true it is because it's all about perception.

London has NO planners....Why?...Where are they all?....Implementing revisions all over the country...Why?
London won't have a delivery methods revision until they have a walk sequenced revision....Why?...that's certainly not the case in EVERY other division in the country.
The PERCEPTION after P&M was that London had virtually been left untouched.
The PERCEPTION is that London are stalling or being allowed to stall on the major changes that have come with this agreement.
I'm afraid dingo that,if anything your posts simply re-enforce that PERCEPTION.

Now you can brush off the chip on your shoulder if you like and you can call this an anti-London post if you like.i really couldn't care less....... but it isn't.
Sometimes it's more important to step outside your bubble and view things from a different angle..come to an office that's had the full works done and see what damage these agreed tools are doing...and will do eventually...in your own back yard.

[baldrick]

Now you make a cheap shot at the one mail centre issue but lets just say some intresting devlopments have taken place over the last week with the assistance of Roger Poole and Acas and lets just say we have a fresh appoach in place. Cannot reveal to much on here but you did ask .

We received this letter today from the London CWU Divisional Reps:

Dear Colleague

London Mail Centre Review

We are writing to update you on important developments with the London Mail Centre Review.

Last week meetings took place at national level, which included support from Roger Poole the Independent Chair and Peter Harwood Chief Conciliator of ACAS.

This culminated with a meeting on Thursday 25th November, at which all parties agreed to a fresh approach which will enable us to
look again at all aspects of the London Mail Centre Review.

This approach is based on the following principles.

* The CWU will appoint professional consultants who will be able to analyse Royal Mail's detailed business case and help CWU submit
new proposals for Royal Mail's consideration.

* Royal Mail has reaffirmed that the overarching objective is to achieve transformation without recourse to compulsory redundancy.
To support this Royal Mail will provide further clarity on how we jointly address all people issues associated with the Review.

* The above steps are part of an agreed process that also covers meetings, communications and how to deal with 'in confidence'
commercial issues.

* The process is in line with the Business Transformation 2010 and Beyond Agreement and will be concluded by the end of January 2011.
It has also been agreed that ACAS will be available to support the process if requested.

We recognise that CWU members are genuinely worried about what the future holds and we are determined to address your concerns
and achieve the best possible outcome for everybody.

We have shared with your representatives full details of the above mentioned process and we will keep you informed of developments.

Yours sincerely,

Martin Walsh, Mark Palfrey, John Simkins
London Divisional Representatives

[fishtank]

You should send that to the guys whose mailcentres are already shutting...see what they think about "professional consultants who will be able to analyse Royal Mail's detailed business case and help CWU submit new proposals for Royal Mail's consideration."
Who's paying for these "professional consultants"...Royal Mail or the CWU?

[baldrick]

I think it would be the London Region CWU. It would be open to other CWU Regions to do the same.
I don't think it's going to make that much difference, except to put off RM's closure announcement for a few weeks ,
and perhaps to let us know how they intend to deal with surplus staff.

[Martin Walsh]

oeBaldrick there are two significant differences to this fresh appoach , the first is that via the consultants the union can present fresh proposals which Royal Mail have to respond to by the end of Jan.

The second point is that there are real concerns over Royal Mail"s plans to close two mail centres. The fact is that unless 372 people transfer to HWDC with the international work and so far only one indivudual express any intrest, then South London staff and East London staff cannot transfer with the work.

Secondly the amount of jobs in Romford , Croydon , Jubilee and Greenford does not match the numbers which work at East London and South London

Before anyone claims that this is London being looked after than think again, you need to understand the difference. Royal Mail"s bussiness case in London means they hope to get £142 million profit from the closures in London and thats total profit after paying for new extensions , VRs , excess fares etc.

Royal Mail plans to close 6 of the 9 mail centres in the North East yet the profit they get from that after vrs, excess fares is 40 million.

Equally when they normally close a mail centre they move the work into one other mail centre ie stockport , oldham , Bolton into Manchester , Liverpool and Crewe into Warrington , Milton keynes , Covertry and Northampton into the new South Midlands mail centre , Reading and Oxford went into Swindon mail centre. The plans to close Dartford , Tonbridge , Canterbury and Maidstone will all go into the new site in Rochester.

Whereas in London the Mount has almost 2000 staff , the new mount will have only 1400 staff meaning that no one can transfer with the work , unlike anyother mail centre closure,.

A massive problems which gets worse when you consider that South London mail centre work will go too 3 different mail centres Croydon , Jubliee and the Mount . South London employs 1000 workers and there are only 280 spaces in Croydon and Jubilee in total with none in the mount.

East London"s work goes to Romford and the Mount. There are 700 OPGs in East London and there are only 180 jobs available in Romford and none in the mount.

Now thats why there is a fresh appoach needed as the plan for London is vastly different from any other mail centre closure either previously in London and we have seen 7 mailcentre closures since 1995 or anyother mail centre closure in the UK.

So can the anti London or anti union people not knock this appoach before they understand why it is in place.

[baldrick]

dingo, I don't doubt the detirmination or sincerity of London Reps, both local and Divisional to deal with the real worries
and problems facing the London CWU membership with the threatened closures and transfer of processing work.
I am just not convinced that RM management will take any notice of any counter proposals put forward by the CWU, professional
independent consultants, MPs, or anyone else. I suppose it's worth a try, but I think that RM made their plans a long time ago, and
will press ahead with them regardless.
I fear that the only result will be that we will be told at the end of January instead of the end of December, leaving us in the dark
for another month.

[dvbuk55]

London not being looked after? When have they not been looked after is closer to the mark - the Mount has 2000 staff and the new proposal is only 1400 would suggest they are overmanned, but then what's new.

As for the loss of jobs.......................600 is a mere drop in the ocean.....................there'll probably be more carbon dioxide expended on chattering about the losses...........

Independent consultants?......................what on earth would they know better than those who have been paid to represent those who've worked in these places. Somebody up for a bung?

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk I would not normally reposnd to you but I think you and Fishtank like to parade around on this site as if you were people who knew actually what you were talking about and were helping people with your comments.

The fact is you do not help anyone but yourself. Us reps may not get everything right but we help people in offices every single day , whether thats represneting them at appeals , dismissals , attendance procdures or assiting the offices with negotiations in order to have better terms and conditions or less damage from the revisons.

All you and some others do on this site is snipe and moan and play the blame game. Its easy to blame someone else for the duty set in your office , or the revison or the fact your not finishing early or that the jobs got harder.

Well this agreement allows you to have negoatations on yours offices revisons have you and some of the others who constantly moan on here had a row with management or even a disagreement. Has any offices had their revisons imposed by executive action ? or have the members agreed them ?

Now I have been a rep local , area and other for over 20 odd years and I have never resorted to blaming others for the problems within my office , area or divison. Sure I have asked for help but the union does not begin or end at 150 The Broadway ( wimbledon ) the bedrock of this union is at the coalface thats where we have always been strong. I just fear that some offices and areas have forgotten that and now agree things so they can blame someone else.

Well in London we dont do that we make sure we protect each other and by doing so enusre we get the right deal.

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk now for the record the Mount have almost 2000 staff and they currently process the international work which is due to go to HWDC , they process W2-14 work which will go to Greenford , they will keep W1 & WC and EC1-4, they will then get in SE1 `s , SW1 , E1 , E3, E14 and SE10 outward work , the Mount will also get N1-22 inward. So it has nothing to do with the Mount being overstaffed the fact is that the new mount will have a whole different mails profile and will cover different postcodes.

In terms of South London , the Camberwell hub and all the norwood offices will run and be processed in Croydon , as will Streatham and Tooting , SE1-28 inward will go into Croydon , The remaining SW outward work and the SW1-20 inward will go to Jubilee.

Royal Mail`s plan will leave over 1200 staff without a job. Now there is no prospect that many taking VR so there is a real possiblity of Complusory redundancies.

So nothing to do with London being looked after but in London we are facing a very real threat and we are not going to accept Royal Mail`s plans which may resort to complusory redundancies.

[dvbuk55]

No what you are going to do is pay someone to put your case for you because you are incapable of producing a coherent costed plan............and after all those years of selfless giving..............................shame.