Delivering while it's dark

[BELIAL]

No posties from Port Talbot on here then?

[stokes11eg]

Yes, those of us who go back a bit remember the dark mornings, and unlit blocks of flats we had to deliver to,But it's different starting out in the morning dark, and watch the sun come up! once or twice in the early years you'd do a second round, which could keep you out till evening darkness fell-it's a lot worse delivering at nights! anf just wait until thee are power cuts and you have no street lamps!

[IloveMYredTROLLEY!]

Must confess I did cut-offs from two other rounds yesterday which needed bundling up after finishing my own round at 1520... These are the real world financial pressures of being on a 22.5 hour contract, usally working ~37 hours a week with overtime, but then when a holiday week comes up (next week for me) my holiday pay will not be based on the average hours done over the previous 12 weeks but on my contract hours... Unlike standard practice in almost every other UK company!

Reading addresses became an issue after ~1645, relying on sporadic street lights and porch lights to filter mail for next house, which definitely has a slow-down effect on delivering. It helped that I did the more familar cut-off last, so I wasn't so worries about the house numbering sequence.

Consequently claimed until just before 1800, just tipping over the 8 hour mark for the day while taking all my meal relief allowance (40 mins), having started at 0945...

[hantsman]

Must confess I did cut-offs from two other rounds yesterday which needed bundling up after finishing my own round at 1520... These are the real world financial pressures of being on a 22.5 hour contract, usally working ~37 hours a week with overtime, but then when a holiday week comes up (next week for me) my holiday pay will not be based on the average hours done over the previous 12 weeks but on my contract hours... Unlike standard practice in almost every other UK company!

Reading addresses became an issue after ~1645, relying on sporadic street lights and porch lights to filter mail for next house, which definitely has a slow-down effect on delivering. It helped that I did the more familar cut-off last, so I wasn't so worries about the house numbering sequence.

Consequently claimed until just before 1800, just tipping over the 8 hour mark for the day while taking all my meal relief allowance (40 mins), having started at 0945...

If you speak to HR you will get averages hours over 12 weeks for your holidays, RM have been taken to an ET. its illegal under the employment law.

[Biker Mouse]

Must confess I did cut-offs from two other rounds yesterday which needed bundling up after finishing my own round at 1520... These are the real world financial pressures of being on a 22.5 hour contract, usally working ~37 hours a week with overtime, but then when a holiday week comes up (next week for me) my holiday pay will not be based on the average hours done over the previous 12 weeks but on my contract hours... Unlike standard practice in almost every other UK company!

Reading addresses became an issue after ~1645, relying on sporadic street lights and porch lights to filter mail for next house, which definitely has a slow-down effect on delivering. It helped that I did the more familar cut-off last, so I wasn't so worries about the house numbering sequence.

Consequently claimed until just before 1800, just tipping over the 8 hour mark for the day while taking all my meal relief allowance (40 mins), having started at 0945...

If you speak to HR you will get averages hours over 12 weeks for your holidays, RM have been taken to an ET. its illegal under the employment law.[/qu

No you wont! HR state that ALL O/T is voluntary and therefore not subject to the 12 weeks rule. This rule only applies to compulsory O/T.

[hantsman]

Its employment law, you need the right person to speak to in HR, dont let them fob you off.

[Biker Mouse]

Its employment law, you need the right person to speak to in HR, dont let them fob you off.

This is a big bugbear of mine and think we should be entitled to average hours worked. Read the following:

Page 7 http://www.acas.co.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=955&p=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It states......Workers with normal working hours
• If a worker’s pay does not vary with the amount of work done then a week’s pay is the amount due for a week’s work under the worker’s
contract. Pay for non-contractual overtime is excluded.

[hantsman]

Its employment law, you need the right person to speak to in HR, dont let them fob you off.

This is a big bugbear of mine and think we should be entitled to average hours worked. Read the following:

Page 7 http://www.acas.co.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=955&p=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It states......Workers with normal working hours
• If a worker’s pay does not vary with the amount of work done then a week’s pay is the amount due for a week’s work under the worker’s
contract. Pay for non-contractual overtime is excluded.

You are entitled to averages hours holiday pay, you have cut and pasted workers with the normal hours section. An ex RM postie took them to an ET last year and won in this very issue.

[Biker Mouse]

Its employment law, you need the right person to speak to in HR, dont let them fob you off.

This is a big bugbear of mine and think we should be entitled to average hours worked. Read the following:

Page 7 http://www.acas.co.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=955&p=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It states......Workers with normal working hours
• If a worker’s pay does not vary with the amount of work done then a week’s pay is the amount due for a week’s work under the worker’s
contract. Pay for non-contractual overtime is excluded.

You are entitled to averages hours holiday pay, you have cut and pasted workers with the normal hours section. An ex RM postie took them to an ET last year and won in this very issue.

We do have normal working hours! Its our contracted hours whether it be 25, 30 or 40 hrs. all O/T is non-contractual! No one that I know receives more than their contracted hours holiday pay. If anyone here on RMC does, let's hear from you and tell us what you actually receive compared to your contract. Think the ex Postie was on a 1hr contract.

[hantsman]

1hr, 25hr, 35 hr contract it does not matter. You posted the correct link but used the wrong bit IMHO


If there are no normal working hours, holiday pay is calculated from average weekly pay over the previous 12 weeks. The Working Time Regulations set out a fairly complicated method for calculating holiday pay sums. Care should be taken in approaching these calculations, and legal advice should be sought.

[clashcityrocker]

It seems all of this is a bit of a grey area.
The postie in question was on a 1hr contract. The assumption of a 1hr contract is you will not be able to complete your workload in the contracted hours and consequently the 12 week rule applies.
If you are on a 30 hr contract and you do o/t (say for example to cover a sick absence) then that is o/t over and above your contracted hours and the 12 week rule wouldn't apply. That o/t is voluntary on another duty.
The test would be if they have made up a duty for a 30 hr contract and knew full well s/he couldn't complete that duty in the contracted hours and offered him/her o/t on a daily basis to complete THAT duty, then the 12 week rule may well apply.
If someone has the time and energy they could try and take this to tribunal. They may win (but the upshot would probably be the duty would be changed and they would lose their o/t.)

[hantsman]

It seems all of this is a bit of a grey area.
The postie in question was on a 1hr contract. The assumption of a 1hr contract is you will not be able to complete your workload in the contracted hours and consequently the 12 week rule applies.
If you are on a 30 hr contract and you do o/t (say for example to cover a sick absence) then that is o/t over and above your contracted hours and the 12 week rule wouldn't apply. That o/t is voluntary on another duty.
The test would be if they have made up a duty for a 30 hr contract and knew full well s/he couldn't complete that duty in the contracted hours and offered him/her o/t on a daily basis to complete THAT duty, then the 12 week rule may well apply.
If someone has the time and energy they could try and take this to tribunal. They may win (but the upshot would probably be the duty would be changed and they would lose their o/t.)

Forget ot its averages hours, here is the post concerned.


DGP1 wrote:
BELIAL wrote:
POSTMAN wrote:
I'm sure they are entitled to it,it's been on here,but i'm guessing it will be hard to find in a search.
Someone must remember.
Whitemoor 66, if that helps judicial adjudication and repayment of holiday and pension entitlement due to Working regular excess over and above contracted hours. IE he took the pickpockets to court and won back pay plus compensation(without help from the CWU ,which I find very curious )

I think there was another one after whitemoor won his case, RM agreed to pay people there holiday pay but it was only those on 1 hour contracts.
Can't remember any others but I do recall W66"s case and he did post the official transcript of his tribunal, and for the life of me I cannot fathom why the CWU has not exploited this judgement nationally because it would protect far more FT jobs than any convoluted agreement to deliver D2D for free or 5 hour delivery spans BELIAL
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Report this postReply with quoteRe: Average holiday pay.

[fishtank]

1hr, 25hr, 35 hr contract it does not matter. You posted the correct link but used the wrong bit IMHO


If there are no normal working hours, holiday pay is calculated from average weekly pay over the previous 12 weeks. The Working Time Regulations set out a fairly complicated method for calculating holiday pay sums. Care should be taken in approaching these calculations, and legal advice should be sought.

It's not that simple..
The reason whitemoor won his case was that the employment judge said that his one hour contract was a farce and didn't reflect the reality of the job.
I'm afraid that doesn't hold water for 25hr contracts where the job specification aligns with the workload and the overtime is voluntary.
Watchcote is correct...at the moment all you will receive is your contracted hours for your holiday pay.
The union has pledged to fix this in future pay negotiations but at the moment....no.

[clashcityrocker]

I've read the tribunal verdict from whitemoor66' case.
The case was particular because he was on a 1hr contract.
It doesn't mean everyone should get paid an average of the last 12 weeks when they get holiday pay.
It doesn't happen in RM and it doesn't happen in any other business/industry I know of.
Buliders/council workers/policemen - all of these people can do lots of o/t. I have never heard one say they get more than 40hrs pay when on holiday.

[hantsman]

Im not explaining this very well.

The reason I think its in employment law is to stop this abuse of paying short peoples holiday pay. We know why RM do it. Forget the walk size its irrelevant.


If you have a 25hr contract and work say 42hrs over a 12 week period on average, its the same thing as a 1hr doing 19 hours say on average.