Customer not able to speak English

[TeeferTiger]

Thats it... whats the mechanism for them to go to the office to collect the item..... a 739?

Yup, if they won't sign but still claim to want the item, then they can either give a name and then sign, or you explain to them that they'll have to collect it from the office with some ID, meaning they'll be giving their name anyway... as well as being inconvenienced by having to go there in the first place.

Give them the choice. Up to them. Sign there and then, give a name and get the item. Or, you write out a P739 on the doorstep, hand it to them/put it thru the L/B and put it down as refused to sign. When you get back, explain to the PHG/RLE staff that although it's refused to sign, they have a P739 and so it needs keeping for the designated period before RTS.

If they refuse to sign and don't want the item, then it's plain refused.

[POSTMAN]

Various comments deleted,we're all adults on here i guess yes?

[clashcityrocker]

So explain the title to me.
If you were working next to an Asian colleague - would it be acceptable to mimic his accent or would it be deemed culturally insensitive (racist)

[Indy]

So explain the title to me.
If you were working next to an Asian colleague - would it be acceptable to mimic his accent or would it be deemed culturally insensitive (racist)

Firstly in THAT context no.... but I used it as a subject header. People looking at it would/could see that it related to customers for whom English might not have been their first language or might find speaking/understanding English a problem. An appropriate approximation of what the content related to. A comment that it was posted to some how stir up some latent racism within this forum is just plain wrong. Whatever title I'd chosen or by default the contents could have been twisted to fit your or anyones obvious agenda in a "your a racist"/"No I'm not!" flame war. If people haven't noticed 'foreign people' make up a large proportion of some post-persons walks. Is it wrong to post questions regarding them?? I haven't been on here that long but I will be more 'aware' of peoples sensitivities when choosing Subject Titles in future.

Anyway, I've said this again and again and AGAIN I want to give everyone a fair crack at a 'signed for' item..... I don't believe that solely because a person has trouble understanding what to do I should discriminate against them. I, given the choice would in the absence of an informed refusal like to 739 the item giving the person additional time etc to decide. NOW, if that places me at odds with RM policy then I need to re-assess my position.

Unfortunately, despite all the racism claims and related posts I'm still nowhere nearer finding out WHAT THE OFFICIAL RM RULES on this are.... go figure!

All I want is a "Yes you can" , "No you can't" or "You can, but if it goes tits up your down the conduct code!" Simple surely????

Oh forgot thanks to the moderator for reposting this! :)

[POSTMAN]

Title changed.

I have had the odd customer who couldn't speak English and i just went through the Marcel Marceau routine and managed to get them to sign it.

If i couldn't get them to sign then personally i would of carded it (Not refused though)and what will be after that will be.
Chances are there is someone in the house who could read/speak English.

What are the chances of a complaint against you if you do the above,i would say it would be very rare,anyway i would of told a manager what has happened and marked the situation on the item and the card as well for good measure.

[Indy]

Title changed.

I have had the odd customer who couldn't speak English and i just went through the Marcel Marceau routine and managed to get them to sign it.

If i couldn't get them to sign then personally i would of carded it (Not refused though)and what will be after that will be.
Chances are there is someone in the house who could read/speak English.

What are the chances of a complaint against you if you do the above,i would say it would be very rare,anyway i would of told a manager what has happened and marked the situation on the item and the card as well for good measure.

Thanks Postman, there are loads of dodgy things going on on our patch... the Union guy has been 739'ing (with management knowledge) loads of packets to a house that nobody lives in. Everyone thinks it's only a matter of time before we find out its being used by scammers. Now thats all well and good but I don't think an innocent postman should be held responsible when it does go tits up. My experience is that posties are the easiest target and so always seem to get blamed. In the current climate I want to do the right thing but also want to cover my arse.

2 postmen have been sacked and 1 suspended in the last 6 weeks in our office for 'procedural' errors.... as I say I want to cover myself.

[POSTMAN]

Title changed.

I have had the odd customer who couldn't speak English and i just went through the Marcel Marceau routine and managed to get them to sign it.

If i couldn't get them to sign then personally i would of carded it (Not refused though)and what will be after that will be.
Chances are there is someone in the house who could read/speak English.

What are the chances of a complaint against you if you do the above,i would say it would be very rare,anyway i would of told a manager what has happened and marked the situation on the item and the card as well for good measure.

Thanks Postman, there are loads of dodgy things going on on our patch... the Union guy has been 739'ing (with management knowledge) loads of packets to a house that nobody lives in. Everyone thinks it's only a matter of time before we find out its being used by scammers. Now thats all well and good but I don't think an innocent postman should be held responsible when it does go tits up. My experience is that posties are the easiest target and so always seem to get blamed. In the current climate I want to do the right thing but also want to cover my arse.

2 postmen have been sacked and 1 suspended in the last 6 weeks in our office for 'procedural' errors.... as I say I want to cover myself.

Well blimey i can see why you're panicking,looking back at your 1st post i personally think you done the right thing,just make sure you tell the screws as soon as you can when stuff like this happens.

With regards to official RM policy there isn't one i don't think on something like this,just common sense.

[Lateagainpostie]

So explain the title to me.
If you were working next to an Asian colleague - would it be acceptable to mimic his accent or would it be deemed culturally insensitive (racist)

You mean like when my Asian colleague mimics my "rural" accent, sometimes I think people are too politically correct and scared to have a bit of banter, or is it a case of "coloured people can't be racists"

[POSTMAN]

Not again,ok so are we in agreement with 739ing refused or just not in,collect/redeliver later?

[NWpostie]

So explain the title to me.
If you were working next to an Asian colleague - would it be acceptable to mimic his accent or would it be deemed culturally insensitive (racist)

You mean like when my Asian colleague mimics my "rural" accent, sometimes I think people are too politically correct and scared to have a bit of banter, or is it a case of "coloured people can't be racists"

Racism cuts both ways

[TeeferTiger]

Not again,ok so are we in agreement with 739ing refused or just not in,collect/redeliver later?

I've already said my view on this subject!! lol

If they're being "awkward" then P739 as refused etc. They'll then have to collect with ID and give their name anyway so it's up to them whether they waste their time because I'm not going to waste anymore of mine on their doorstep. If they genuinely don't understand, then P739 as unable to sign or something.

[clashcityrocker]

So explain the title to me.
If you were working next to an Asian colleague - would it be acceptable to mimic his accent or would it be deemed culturally insensitive (racist)

You mean like when my Asian colleague mimics my "rural" accent, sometimes I think people are too politically correct and scared to have a bit of banter, or is it a case of "coloured people can't be racists"

If you are not comfortable with your Asian colleague mimicking your rural accent then you need to speak up and tell them.
Unfortunately for ethnic minorities - they are usually in the minority (the clue is in the name) so we are not just dealing with a bit of banter, we are dealing with an imbalance of power.
It may be acceptable for you and your colleague to mimic each other's accents in your own little world, but that doesn't mean it is acceptable for other people to mimic his (or your) accent, especially if the aim of the mimicking is to demean or belittle. From my experience that is exactly what people who mimic foreign accents intend to do and you can hide it behind "a bit of banter" but it doesn't make it any less racist.
Of course "coloured" people can be racist, just as some women can be sexist, but more often than not these groups are on the recieving end of isms, not the perpetrators.
The original title of the thread wasn't acceptable to me. It was demeaning and belittling. I'm glad Postman had the sense to change it.
Sometimes I think people aren't politically correct enough.

[Indy]

Not again,ok so are we in agreement with 739ing refused or just not in,collect/redeliver later?

O.K to put this one to bed.... I've been reliably informed that the correct RM procedure is to deal with it as a REFUSAL no matter how unfair it seems. If you I was to 739 and a complaint came in it would be treated as minor unless there were other factors involved.

I know that everyone here APPEARS to assume that this is a black, asian etc thing but the post actually related to an experience I had with a blonde Norwegian woman.

[dvbuk55]

(Probably at some point a postie has had the problem of requiring a signature from someone who can't write.)

Why would that be an issue?
There are no rules at all as to what the recipient puts in the area marked signature.
They could draw a little picture of a boat or sign it Pope Gregory....what exactly are you going to do about it?

Some will remember the little brown books we used to get a signature in and hand in at the end of the day for checking. I went to this house, knocked on the door, foreigner obviously, gives him the book and he signs in arabic..........hands the book in and next day gets called in to the office to explain what, in truth, looked like scribble. The manager says what's that and I says well I presume it's his signature..........he says how are we supposed to know that and I says why not go and ask him....................was told there would be repercussions............................well I'm still waiting

[POSTMAN]

Not again,ok so are we in agreement with 739ing refused or just not in,collect/redeliver later?

O.K to put this one to bed.... I've been reliably informed that the correct RM procedure is to deal with it as a REFUSAL no matter how unfair it seems. If you I was to 739 and a complaint came in it would be treated as minor unless there were other factors involved.

I know that everyone here APPEARS to assume that this is a black, asian etc thing but the post actually related to an experience I had with a blonde Norwegian woman.

Personally i wouldn't do that,i would card it/collect/redeliver later.
Common sense me thinks.

And where did you get your info from as there is no official procudere on this.