Been any CDV or Del Methods Revisions in London yet?

[fishtank]

However as part of the BT 2010 National agreement offices will only have delivery methods if they do a walk sequencing revison.

Now Postman you do not have to have delivery methods with walk sequencing. The London Directors policy is that they want to introduce delivery methods with walk seqeuncing however other regions are introducing delivery methods without walk sequencing

I can only imagine dingo meant to say....However as part of the BT 2010 National agreement London offices will only have delivery methods if they do a walk sequencing revison.
And would you believe it......there are no spare planners so......

[fishtank]

I can accept if people were following the agreement that they would be in a postion to argue that the agreement has failed but all I have seen on here is , well the manager wanted this and told us we had to have this or the rep did not listen too us or that the members just wanted the money.
.

Well we've followed the agreement to the letter...all of the parameters have been checked at the highest level by both sides,we didn't care what the manager wanted...his plan was thrown out weeks ago...the members are human so of course they wanted the money but it wasn't the driving force behind the revision being accepted and after all that we go live in 10 days and i can tell you...it will be carnage.
Why will it be carnage after everything has been triple checked?
Because with 4hr10min walks of around 600-700 calls the indoor w**k tool gives us 2hrs10mins.
That's not 2hrs10 mins to prep the delivery...that's 2hrs10mins...to do everything including IPS.
Never mind though the mailcentre has promised us 85% walksequenced although i haven't worked out how you sequence packets.

[POSTMAN]

So your office got a yes vote Fish even though they know it's wrong?

[POSTMAN]

I don't recall anywhere in the agreement that said the delivery methods revision would be linked in any way to the sequencing revision - in fact it was two seperate revisions for which seperate payments of £200 for the delivery methods and £600 for the walk sequence followed by £200 after the revision but in any case not later than 6 weeks post revision. If there was a link why not wait until the WS came in and do both together, which would have been a simpler exercise.

Of course it depends whose interpreting the agreement and where you happen to be....................

That's right,didn't we all have this covo a few weeks back?

Yes offices have got lump sums so far 156 delivery offices.

Now Postman you do not have to have delivery methods with walk sequencing. The London Directors policy is that they want to introduce delivery methods with walk seqeuncing however other regions are introducing delivery methods without walk sequencing for example the NW1-NW11 area comes under the Thames Valley management region and most of their offices are having delivery methods introduced now and they dont get walk sequencing until late next year.

If you deploy a delivery methods revison without walk sequencing you recieve £200.

If you have a delivery methods revison with a walk seqeneicing then you will get your £600 and then £200 = £800

[fishtank]

So your office got a yes vote Fish even though they know it's wrong?

There's nothing else we can do POSTMAN.
We've had all the parameters for IWT checked and re-checked and it is what it is.
We can't stall any longer just because we don't think it will work.
All we can do now is do the job properly and stay strong.

[POSTMAN]

So your office got a yes vote Fish even though they know it's wrong?

There's nothing else we can do POSTMAN.
We've had all the parameters for IWT checked and re-checked and it is what it is.
We can't stall any longer just because we don't think it will work.
All we can do now is do the job properly and stay strong.

I see,so it's a case of it's fecked,we'll get the revision money and cut off.

[dvbuk55]

Ah yes, some people are special and won't have to be bothered with all the crap the rest of us have to do - then maybe RM aren't too bothered about small numbers of employees compared to the savings nationwide, RM can afford to wait awhile for the excuses to run out. Wonder what the new owners will think of a two tier workforce

Sorters are coming in early in our office at 4 am and some are being held over on indoor work on IPS to clear the mail ready for the following day - that allows most people to be away by 10 am which is about the same as before and of course there is no longer any lapsing/summer efficiency - there has been no loss of employees and an increase in hours for some part timers - even I was offered full time work again..........as if.

It's not all sweetness and light of course, the planner prepared the opals - anyone who hasn't yet got to that stage I would advise to use the tried and trusted method and let the experienced officers sort out the loops and parking places........and yes georoute does do that.......but in our case not too successfully. The OPALS too have been drawn from the data base and they haven't been as good as previous manual ones...............all in all though all the glitches should be ironed out in time for the Christmas pressure and if it's not...............well at the end of the day it's only paper!

[fishtank]

So your office got a yes vote Fish even though they know it's wrong?

There's nothing else we can do POSTMAN.
We've had all the parameters for IWT checked and re-checked and it is what it is.
We can't stall any longer just because we don't think it will work.
All we can do now is do the job properly and stay strong.

I see,so it's a case of it's fecked,we'll get the revision money and cut off.

No.
You'll understand when IWT and WS reaches your place.
If everything you put into these things is spot on....it makes it difficult to argue with what comes out.

[dvbuk55]

So your office got a yes vote Fish even though they know it's wrong?

There's nothing else we can do POSTMAN.
We've had all the parameters for IWT checked and re-checked and it is what it is.
We can't stall any longer just because we don't think it will work.
All we can do now is do the job properly and stay strong.

I see,so it's a case of it's fecked,we'll get the revision money and cut off.

Fishtank is right! You have the parameters, they are checked against the workload and IWT with whatever week is being used and what's left is what you are going to work to. You do have input but when faced with the figures and you cannot refute them without evidence, then you are left with the plan produced with georoute. The walks are displayed and changes made but it's still in the lap of the gods. I mean who would want to work every Thu, Fri, Sat but faced with the stark choice of that or increasing hours and losing staff what do you do.............................

What exactly are London Directors..................is that a part of the agreement the rest of us haven't seen?

[Martin Walsh]

Each reigonal delivery director had a plan , and due to the lack of planners they decided that all the offices apart from the sequencing offices will simply have a self starter revision which is based on the IWT. The delivery methods revison will therefore come in with the sequencing revison.

Other Directors have different plans.

Now what I stated is that can anyone tell where the agreement states that what the IWT says, or what geo route says we have to deploy ? So why are their offices doing so ?

Its states quite clears in the national agreement under the delivery revison process the following :

BOTH ROYAL MAIL AND THE CWU RECOGNISE THAT SUCCESSFUL CHANGE NEEDS FULL AND MEANINGFUL INVOLVEMENT OF ALL KEY PARTIES. IT IS THEREFORE CRITICAL THAT BOTH LOCAL MANAGEMENT AND THE CWU ARE POSTITIVELY AND ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN THE REVISION PROCESS RIGHT AT THE VERY START, THROUGHOUT THE PLANNING , NEGOTITATION ( YES THAT THING WE DO AS A UNION NOT JUST ACCEPTING WHAT ROYAL MAIL WANT ) IMPLEMENTATION AND REVIEW. AS PART OF THIS INVOLVEMENT , INPUT WILL BE TAKEN AND IDEAS BOUGHT FORWARD, AND IMPLEMENTED WHERE APPROPRIATE. WHERE IDEAS ARE NOT IMPLEMENTED CLEAR EXPLAINATIONS OF THE REASONS /RATIONALE WILL BE GIVEN SUPPORTED BY RELEVANT INFORMATION. TO SUPPORT THIS , THE FOLLOWING INVOLVEMENT PROCESS WILL FORM A KEY PART OF THE REVISIONS PROCESS. ROYAL MAIL AND THE CWU ARE COMMITTED TO BRING THIS ABOUT AND BELIEVE IT IS ESSENTIAL THEREFORE THAT THE FOLLOWING IS PUT IN PLACE TO UNDERPIN THE PROCESS AND IMPROVE RELATIONSHIPS

POSTIVE ENGAGEMENT BETWEEN TE CWU AND ROYAL MAIL AND A FIRM COMMITMENT TO APPROPRIATE NEGOTITATION , CONSULTATION AND COMMUNICATION ON ALL DELIVERY REVISON ISSUES.

Now can anyone tell if you believe the revison is going to fail why at local level we have agreed the revison in the first place. Remember there is a disagreement process and phase 4 has to be joint sign off. We have loads of horror stories and there must be some truth in some of them but why have we agreed a revison in the first place and if we have not agreed the revison why are we not jumping up and down complaining of executive action and raising it up. There is a thread on here where a rep says that he will not introduce a revision because it is doomed to fail. Well done that rep, I can state wth certainity I would never attempt to tell a local rep just to introduce it. I would help the rep getting a better deal by negotiating with management with the local and area rep in the same room.

Now I fully understand that some managers will try it on with offices but why dont those offices stand up for themselves ? Thats what being in the union is about that you are stronger together than on your own. No doubt i will get plenty of stick but i walk the walk and dont just talk the talk as some on here do or should I say moan.

[fishtank]

I would never attempt to tell a local rep just to introduce it. I would help the rep getting a better deal by negotiating with management with the local and area rep in the same room.

Our revision was endorsed by our ADR,,,in fact he made a good show of selling it to the members in the pre-vote meeting....extra full-time jobs you see....our divisional rep was....busy.

[POSTMAN]

But Fish,you guys still voted it in! Have i missed something.
Now let's say for instance my place,now we know all the walks ect,if something was put out that the whole office knew was f****d we wouldn't vote it in.
The next question i guess is where to next after that...

Now dingo...

I would help the rep getting a better deal by negotiating with management with the local and area rep in the same room.

What i think Fish is saying is there was no other option.So what would be next?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I can accept if people were following the agreement that they would be in a postion to argue that the agreement has failed but all I have seen on here is , well the manager wanted this and told us we had to have this or the rep did not listen too us or that the members just wanted the money.
.

Could it be because a majority of members have not seen the BT2010 agreement and are therefore locked into a cycle of briefing by management and in some cases poor reps.

There was concern that the Union were not sending the BT2010 agreement with the ballot papers, merely bullet points which the Union wanted highlighted. Perhaps this is an unwanted and unforeseen consequence of that policy.

Things do not happen in isolation and I sincerely hope that there is no hand wringing or passing the buck at HQ, and that in fact people are hard at work behind the scenes to try and stop a re-occurrence of the crisis from P&M to BT2010.

[DGP1]

BOTH ROYAL MAIL AND THE CWU RECOGNISE THAT SUCCESSFUL CHANGE NEEDS FULL AND MEANINGFUL INVOLVEMENT OF ALL KEY PARTIES

Hasn't happened in my office, the planner just did what he wanted (more likely what he was told by his boss) and this has left the duties a disaster. Even the DOM has said the duties are wrong and won't work so you know how bad that is

[dvbuk55]

I presume this is from the agreement:

BOTH ROYAL MAIL AND THE CWU RECOGNISE THAT SUCCESSFUL CHANGE NEEDS FULL AND MEANINGFUL INVOLVEMENT OF ALL KEY PARTIES. IT IS THEREFORE CRITICAL THAT BOTH LOCAL MANAGEMENT AND THE CWU ARE POSTITIVELY AND ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN THE REVISION PROCESS RIGHT AT THE VERY START, THROUGHOUT THE PLANNING , NEGOTITATION ( YES THAT THING WE DO AS A UNION NOT JUST ACCEPTING WHAT ROYAL MAIL WANT ) IMPLEMENTATION AND REVIEW. AS PART OF THIS INVOLVEMENT , INPUT WILL BE TAKEN AND IDEAS BOUGHT FORWARD, AND IMPLEMENTED WHERE APPROPRIATE. WHERE IDEAS ARE NOT IMPLEMENTED CLEAR EXPLAINATIONS OF THE REASONS /RATIONALE WILL BE GIVEN SUPPORTED BY RELEVANT INFORMATION. TO SUPPORT THIS , THE FOLLOWING INVOLVEMENT PROCESS WILL FORM A KEY PART OF THE REVISIONS PROCESS. ROYAL MAIL AND THE CWU ARE COMMITTED TO BRING THIS ABOUT AND BELIEVE IT IS ESSENTIAL THEREFORE THAT THE FOLLOWING IS PUT IN PLACE TO UNDERPIN THE PROCESS AND IMPROVE RELATIONSHIPS

POSTIVE ENGAGEMENT BETWEEN TE CWU AND ROYAL MAIL AND A FIRM COMMITMENT TO APPROPRIATE NEGOTITATION , CONSULTATION AND COMMUNICATION ON ALL DELIVERY REVISON ISSUES.

Really what has been posted is what is happening - you have input, you have consultation, relevant changes are made with negotiation BUT the irrefutable fact is you cannot just say "the figures presented are bullshit and so we aren't doing it" is it a question of balls....no.... it's a question of realising that you cannot delay because you are going to have to work harder, that you will have to accept the CDV Park and Loop, use of PDAs for delivery and collection, hybrid duties BECAUSE modernisation is the keystone for BT 2010. As I understand the union are all for going ahead and neither party will tolerate delay - unless of course it is the favourite sons.