POSTMAN wrote:My local agreement pre 2010 agreement was to up the delivery span to 4hrs hense (yes i'm sure you're bored of hearing it) i am on a 4 day week.
Local agreements can work if you do them properly.
The only problem with that POSTMAN and don't take it the wrong way because i'm sure you love your 4 day week but when we tried to convince the union and Royal Mail that 3.5hr delivery spans were the maximum our members were prepared to accept we had it rammed down our throats from both parties that other areas had already agreed longer spans...to protect full-time jobs. that's the down side of local agreements...we didn't and still after our preference exercise...don't want 4 day weeks or longer delivery spans...but we're more and more isolated....and the majority of these offices got f**k all in return for their longer spans.
POSTMAN wrote:My local agreement pre 2010 agreement was to up the delivery span to 4hrs hense (yes i'm sure you're bored of hearing it) i am on a 4 day week.
Local agreements can work if you do them properly.
The only problem with that POSTMAN and don't take it the wrong way because i'm sure you love your 4 day week but when we tried to convince the union and Royal Mail that 3.5hr delivery spans were the maximum our members were prepared to accept we had it rammed down our throats from both parties that other areas had already agreed longer spans...to protect full-time jobs. that's the down side of local agreements...we didn't and still after our preference exercise...don't want 4 day weeks or longer delivery spans...but we're more and more isolated....and the majority of these offices got f**k all in return for their longer spans.
Agree,and interestingly my branch told Gibson to f**k off when he queried it and did not want us to have it.
I would of thought that depending on when peeps get their WS mail and their delivery span has been worked out,with the amount of part timers in the place a 4 day week although longer may not be a killer.
At the end of the day if you have to do a 4hr duty,why not do it in a 4 day week.
If you also have to do even longer like some have posted why not go for it.
Maybe not your mob but anyone reading this.
I Wrote-During Covid-Which is still relevant now
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been. My BFF Clash The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
POSTMAN wrote:My local agreement pre 2010 agreement was to up the delivery span to 4hrs hense (yes i'm sure you're bored of hearing it) i am on a 4 day week.
Local agreements can work if you do them properly.
The only problem with that POSTMAN and don't take it the wrong way because i'm sure you love your 4 day week but when we tried to convince the union and Royal Mail that 3.5hr delivery spans were the maximum our members were prepared to accept we had it rammed down our throats from both parties that other areas had already agreed longer spans...to protect full-time jobs. that's the down side of local agreements...we didn't and still after our preference exercise...don't want 4 day weeks or longer delivery spans...but we're more and more isolated....and the majority of these offices got f**k all in return for their longer spans.
Agree,and interestingly my branch told Gibson to f**k off when he queried it and did not want us to have it.
I would of thought that depending on when peeps get their WS mail and their delivery span has been worked out,with the amount of part timers in the place a 4 day week although longer may not be a killer.
At the end of the day if you have to do a 4hr duty,why not do it in a 4 day week.
If you also have to do even longer like some have posted why not go for it.
Maybe not your mob but anyone reading this.
The answer to you question is very very very simple, there isn't enough indoor work to maintain a 10 hour day................ with a four hour delivery - which I might add is ludicrous - the equation being 3.5 hour delivery on an eight hour day, add half an hour on delivery and an hour and a half to prepare it?????
I know that each delivery office cannot be the same and that some form of local agreements may be beneficial to suit that particular workplace, but there has to be a National Standard that all offices have to conform to or else there is always going to be third party influences brought into arguments by Local doms who will cite another office, offices that are able to achieve certain standards etc, so therefore why cant his office. It maybe that due to situation there is no way that his office can compete with the office he is comparing. Whilst everything is geared to local agreements there will always be comparisons made to the highest achiever, etc etc. Divide and conquer is more difficult to achieve where there is a firm national set of rules and regulations. Thats why Royal Mail are keen to be rid of the Industrial relations framework.
POSTMAN wrote:My local agreement pre 2010 agreement was to up the delivery span to 4hrs hense (yes i'm sure you're bored of hearing it) i am on a 4 day week.
Local agreements can work if you do them properly.
The only problem with that POSTMAN and don't take it the wrong way because i'm sure you love your 4 day week but when we tried to convince the union and Royal Mail that 3.5hr delivery spans were the maximum our members were prepared to accept we had it rammed down our throats from both parties that other areas had already agreed longer spans...to protect full-time jobs. that's the down side of local agreements...we didn't and still after our preference exercise...don't want 4 day weeks or longer delivery spans...but we're more and more isolated....and the majority of these offices got f**k all in return for their longer spans.
Agree,and interestingly my branch told Gibson to f**k off when he queried it and did not want us to have it.
I would of thought that depending on when peeps get their WS mail and their delivery span has been worked out,with the amount of part timers in the place a 4 day week although longer may not be a killer.
At the end of the day if you have to do a 4hr duty,why not do it in a 4 day week.
If you also have to do even longer like some have posted why not go for it.
Maybe not your mob but anyone reading this.
The answer to you question is very very very simple, there isn't enough indoor work to maintain a 10 hour day................ with a four hour delivery - which I might add is ludicrous - the equation being 3.5 hour delivery on an eight hour day, add half an hour on delivery and an hour and a half to prepare it?????
Ok,your thoughts on this are well documented,i will be honest and say my fingers are crossed for my WSM revision next year.
You are obviously aware 'i am on it now',so tbf your post does not hold up pre WSM and 2010 agreement.
I Wrote-During Covid-Which is still relevant now
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been. My BFF Clash The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
I'll give you a clue POSTMAN...they want a 4hr30min delivery span on an 8hr15min day at our place....they are not getting it but that's what they want.....
That's what an early WSM feed does to your span indicator/optimiser tool.
It doesn't take a genius to work out what throwing a 9hr45min day into the mix will do.
The trouble with local agreements are managers are given carte blanche. Almost to a man, other offices are cited and used as a stick to beat other offices over the head with.
A good starting point has to be that old chestnut and bone of contention, part time contracts. With more and more new contracts being part time only, there has to be an agreement at national level as to what all these differing contractual hours entail.
Full time hours are almost carved out in stone and most know what is expected of them. Someone on a 22.5 hour contract coming in to an un prepped frame, completely throwing it off, deads, redirections, tying up, bagging then delivering, why on earth is there any need for full timers? IPS will be next!
POSTMAN wrote:
Ok,your thoughts on this are well documented,i will be honest and say my fingers are crossed for my WSM revision next year.
You are obviously aware 'i am on it now',so tbf your post does not hold up pre WSM and 2010 agreement.
Of course it does. You see the problem with a 4 hour delivery on a 10 hour day is WHAT DO YOU DO FOR THE OTHER 6 HOURS? IPS, Prep, you must surely be engaged for the full 10 or the delivery methods revision, let alone the WSM is going to kill you. If the delivery is scheduled for 4 hours how long is it actually taking?
i will be honest and say my fingers are crossed for my WSM revision next year.
I have posted many times how it works 'at the mo'.
Am i worried about next year,of course i am,i have no idea how it will work,we will obviously get an idea when we know what part we are in the WSM list.
We may just need to be tinkered we may need a massive overhaul.
fishtank wrote:I'll give you a clue POSTMAN...they want a 4hr30min delivery span on an 8hr15min day at our place....they are not getting it but that's what they want.....
That's what an early WSM feed does to your span indicator/optimiser tool.
It doesn't take a genius to work out what throwing a 9hr45min day into the mix will do.
What duty pattern is that then?
I Wrote-During Covid-Which is still relevant now
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been. My BFF Clash The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
Which one?
The 8hr 15min is a five day week with a rotating day off+1 extra Sat to give 1in3 Saturdays off.
The 9hr45min is just a straight 4 day week over a 3 week pattern.
Both based on an average 39hr week.
POSTMAN wrote:
Ok,your thoughts on this are well documented,i will be honest and say my fingers are crossed for my WSM revision next year.
You are obviously aware 'i am on it now',so tbf your post does not hold up pre WSM and 2010 agreement.
Of course it does. You see the problem with a 4 hour delivery on a 10 hour day is WHAT DO YOU DO FOR THE OTHER 6 HOURS? IPS, Prep, you must surely be engaged for the full 10 or the delivery methods revision, let alone the WSM is going to kill you. If the delivery is scheduled for 4 hours how long is it actually taking?
for a kick off you would be at the primary a lot longer as there would be less staff each day, longer M/R plus accelarating and pouching off time would all put a dent in that 6 hours.
Postman theres no way in hell you'll get anything like 4 hour span for a 4 day week.
Which one?
The 8hr 15min is a five day week with a rotating day off+1 extra Sat to give 1in3 Saturdays off.
The 9hr45min is just a straight 4 day week over a 3 week pattern.
Both based on an average 39hr week.
Have you started the 39 hr week then ft? or it it just a future possibility.
fishtank wrote:I'll give you a clue POSTMAN...they want a 4hr30min delivery span on an 8hr15min day at our place....they are not getting it but that's what they want.....
That's what an early WSM feed does to your span indicator/optimiser tool.
It doesn't take a genius to work out what throwing a 9hr45min day into the mix will do.
4hrs-4.15 in an 8hr day in our revision. That's what having WSM in your office does for you cos most of the sequencing is already thrown off when we get in. (on the days it's actually turned up from the MC that is)
Even worse, we had the chance of 3 weeks on/1 off, 4 day weeks, 9 day fortnights etc - and what did the bellends in our office vote for? A 5 day week with rotating day off and 1 Sat off in 6. Thanks a lot you f*cking idiots.
that's the down side of local agreements...we didn't and still after our preference exercise...don't want 4 day weeks or longer delivery spans...but we're more and more isolated....and the majority of these offices got f**k all in return for their longer spans. 
