Royal Mail bankrupt by February

[Night Tonic]

If I had a mortgage to pay, and I don't now, I would not be counting on steady employment at RM or the agreement not changing thats for sure. Word has it that the agreement will be short lived too, and I don't mean it will get replaced with a better one.

[fishtank]

If I had a mortgage to pay, and I don't now, I would not be counting on steady employment at RM or the agreement not changing thats for sure. Word has it that the agreement will be short lived too, and I don't mean it will get replaced with a better one.

Why do i get the distinct feeling that you enjoyed typing that post NT?
Misery does indeed love company it would seem.

[Martin Walsh]

Look we all know Royal Mail is not in a great financial state , this is due to a number of things including the fact very little progress has been made in regards to revisons and that Royal Mail are 150 million adrift in regards to what they believe they would have saved in regards to delivery revisons by now , 5 months into the agreement.

However I do take with a pinch of sort what some managers are saying as how do we know if they have bought into the sell off plans of the government.

However if anyone believes that revenue from door to door will save them in isolation then your living in fantasy land. The supplement trapped the money prior to the agreement and whilst the growth has been good , quality in some areas has meant where failure to deliver has been made Royal Mail have to return the money plus the all the costs of printing or setting up of addtional call centre staff etc. Door to Door will help if the product grows and qulaity is maintained but its a long way off from being that at this time.

In any case each region has had to pay comhenstation to customers over the failure to redirect mail , 0900 PS or 1300 PS , loss of mail , doorstepping and whole range of other stuff. In fact we had a presentation in London last week showing us the information which meant the London region alone paid out 1.4 million in fines last year.

Now its not surprising that Royal Mail have a cash flow problem as they have put the investment up front and knew that but I think that they believed that they would have seen more savings then they have so far.

However I think the CWU played a blinder in terms of the involvement process and the six step process which means that if a rep does not sign phase 4 off then there is no agreement to the revision and it gets stalled. This is why there are so many log jams where maangement think they are at stage 4 and our reps are at stage 2. Royal Mail cant move past step 4 on their own as it will be executive action and that goes to the NDG.

Getting back to the point there is no way that the brief was a national brief, Royal Mail would never come out and say in public or to the staff that they could go bankrupt. The reason being is that all of Royal Mail`s suppliers would call in their credit notices meaning Royal Mail would go bankrupt even quicker.

So is Royal Mail in crisis yes but they been saying they have been in crisis for the last 20 years and its almost the cry wolf syndrome. No one believes them .

However I know some dont like this but given Royal Mail`s situration does anyone seriously believe we would be better off without the national agreement ?

[fmrPOSTIE]

Why cant Royal Mail make money? Nobody else has an end-end delivery service it still basically has a monopoly - it must be down to mis-management. Get rid of the poor managers. Gotta feeling this will become a big political story soon.

[taurus88]

Why cant Royal Mail make money? Nobody else has an end-end delivery service it still basically has a monopoly - it must be down to mis-management. Get rid of the poor managers. Gotta feeling this will become a big political story soon.

Because RM is paying its staff £4 an hour more than the national minimum wage to deliver somebody else's product! It doesn't matter how many growth areas there are, RM is still having to deliver more of somebody else's mail than their own, in a world where they are the only company that can actually deliver it. How can it possibly work for them? It's like riding a horse but stabbing it every time you mount and dismount.

[Martin Walsh]

Why cant Royal Mail make money? Nobody else has an end-end delivery service it still basically has a monopoly - it must be down to mis-management. Get rid of the poor managers. Gotta feeling this will become a big political story soon.

Its down to a number of things certainly poor management but also Post Comm. They have allowed the most profitable part to the mail`s bussiness to be opened up but then Royal Mail has to deliver the final mile. The final mile equates to 60% of all Royal Mail`s costs as we have a universal one price goes anywhere system. So the more you lose the profitable part of the operation to downstream access the more costly the final mile becomes.

[NWpostie]

Why cant Royal Mail make money? Nobody else has an end-end delivery service it still basically has a monopoly - it must be down to mis-management. Get rid of the poor managers. Gotta feeling this will become a big political story soon.

Its down to a number of things certainly poor management but also Post Comm. They have allowed the most profitable part to the mail`s bussiness to be opened up but then Royal Mail has to deliver the final mile. The final mile equates to 60% of all Royal Mail`s costs as we have a universal one price goes anywhere system. So the more you lose the profitable part of the operation to downstream access the more costly the final mile becomes.

eventually you kill the final mile, DSAs will have two options, pay more to ensure the final mile is retained or deliver it themselves.

[dvbuk55]

The situration is the national agreement was crap.

Because of the way in which the investment was made up front without consultation and which some on here have been saying we had to go along with it because of that. So where are we now - well we aren't anywhere, the revisions aren't taking place, there has been no added time for the extra D2D which has now reached 5, some areas haven't coped well with the increases and no guesses as to why that is. The target dates are being pushed further and further back and the revisions, which weren't supposed to be savings driven by the way - haven't made any savings.

So where did we stand before the agreement, stumbling from week to week totally disorganised and where do we stand now.....................well actually nothing has changed.

Both RM and the CWU are bankrupt - bankrupt of any idea as to how to fix the problem, which is staring them in the face. Perhaps Hooper does have the right idea, perhaps privatisation IS the key to moving forward if that is the only way to get business driven ideas accepted.

[Night Tonic]

Why cant Royal Mail make money? Nobody else has an end-end delivery service it still basically has a monopoly - it must be down to mis-management. Get rid of the poor managers. Gotta feeling this will become a big political story soon.

Its down to a number of things certainly poor management but also Post Comm. They have allowed the most profitable part to the mail`s bussiness to be opened up but then Royal Mail has to deliver the final mile. The final mile equates to 60% of all Royal Mail`s costs as we have a universal one price goes anywhere system. So the more you lose the profitable part of the operation to downstream access the more costly the final mile becomes.

In one. Trouble with Postcomm is its juggling two jobs, regulation and trying to adhere to EU strategy/rules.

[belle smith]

Now its not surprising that Royal Mail have a cash flow problem as they have put the investment up front and knew that but I think that they believed that they would have seen more savings then they have so far.

Do you not think that a £10.3 billion accountance deficit is helping to contrabute to that cash flow problem. The deficit that the CWU is opposed to having removed from RM's balance sheet. for tactical reasons with regards to privitisation.

However I think the CWU played a blinder in terms of the involvement process and the six step process which means that if a rep does not sign phase 4 off then there is no agreement to the revision and it gets stalled. This is why there are so many log jams where maangement think they are at stage 4 and our reps are at stage 2. Royal Mail cant move past step 4 on their own as it will be executive action and that goes to the NDG.

Yep we know you do....had a word with our planer the other day, was asking about the attendance call rate, there isn't one it's all factored in apparently but not to worry as this 'has all been agreed'.

Dingo, at what stage of this magical six stage process are reps able to negotiate down the 3.71MPH walk speed????

Getting back to the point there is no way that the brief was a national brief, Royal Mail would never come out and say in public or to the staff that they could go bankrupt. The reason being is that all of Royal Mail`s suppliers would call in their credit notices meaning Royal Mail would go bankrupt even quicker.

agreed. also given the goverments borrowing requierments i think this might be an inopertune moment to have a company it owns default on a debt to it's creditors.

So is Royal Mail in crisis yes but they been saying they have been in crisis for the last 20 years and its almost the cry wolf syndrome. No one believes them .

The last time the boy cried wolf there was actually a wolf!

However I know some dont like this but given Royal Mail`s situration does anyone seriously believe we would be better off without the national agreement ?

yes yes a thousand times YES! I was never opposed to getting an agreement just the piece of s**t that we got!

[belle smith]

The situration So where did we stand before the agreement, stumbling from week to week totally disorganised and where do we stand now.....................well actually nothing has changed.

Wait till you've had your revision, it will change then....you'll have longer delivery spans. and if you can't complete it in the time pegasus says your lineo will tell you pegasus say you should complete in this time your union agreed pegasus your the problem.

[bunkerland]

The situration So where did we stand before the agreement, stumbling from week to week totally disorganised and where do we stand now.....................well actually nothing has changed.

Wait till you've had your revision, it will change then....you'll have longer delivery spans. and if you can't complete it in the time pegasus says your lineo will tell you pegasus say you should complete in this time your union agreed pegasus your the problem.

We had a full pegasus revision done in our office about two years ago,we were told what a fantastic and accurate system it was..............when it was completed it showed that no savings could be made in our office!

The next week we got a visit from the area manager,he told us he didn't think pegasus was that good a system and that we should conduct our own revision,oh,and he said we'd have to remove 100 hours from our office and if we didn't vote yes to it,it would be more like 150.

A few members of staff drew up changes to reduce office hours by 100,i myself was pissing myself at the notion that our office would vote to cut so many hours from our own office,but guess what,it was voted in by a big majority!
It just goes to show when you use scare tactics effectively,you can get people to vote for anything!!

Anyway,the result of the reduced hours in our office is a disaster and the only thing that stops complete meltdown on a busy day is the sense of misplaced loyalty so many posties still feel towards the job and their customers. That speaks volumes for them but unfortunately just helps cover up the problems!

[Sharkeyes]

It is simple. 'We need to stop delivering and refuse to handle ALL DOWN STREAM ACCESS MAIL!'
This is why we are hemoraging money to foreign owned compamies who sifon this money abroad never to return. As if them greedy fat cat EU commissionairs don't suck enough out of us at £45 million a day already!
'Our best weapon is our refusal!'
If we stopped handling this crap off UK Mail, TNT, DHL Lynxmail etc. theywould either have to deliver all of the items themselves or give up the business back to us. After all it has been STOLEN FROM US thanks to EU law on postal directives.
Icidently EU Law superceeds ALL national laws of the 27 member states. That is why I believe that we should tell them where to go and push their crappy privatisation laws into the English Channel!
What the EU has done is given a green light charter to any greedy foreign company to waltz over here and steal our business, our money, our way of life, our heritage and our childrens future, because if WE don't rise up and stop this now, then our children will grow up in a Federal European super state, under a puppet government in Westminster that can't & won't ever say....NO!"
This country needs its postmen & women to stick together now more than ever for we are at war with the EU Parliament. They drew these battle lines not us, but only we, the people can do something about it. :cfo

[BELIAL]

Trouble is soft lad, DSA has f**k all to do with the EU ,our own home grown parasites dreamed that little racket up

[Lounge Lizard]

Except that if Royal Mail was bankrupted there would be certain firms willing to pick up the pieces and give staff that wanted a job a new contract and the minimum wage

Chill Lounge it wont happen

No, it's all going to the plan dreamed up a few years ago. Six years of DSA has seen RM weakened and the competitors strengthened culminating in RM near bankrupt and then the vultures taking over.