working to your allotted time

[Pat Ostman]

our office..you cannot leave till 10.10 or until everyone is prepped and is starting too bundle up..i dont see how other offices are working differently to this,
why are some offices still allowing posties to finish early and go home when others are being made to work upto or near your time.not a moan at working till my time but
seems unfair to allow others not to.

i start at 9. and by the time i get there all of the full timers and the idiot part timers who go in early have gone. this is how it has always been in our office it is proper messed up. last week i was waiting for my bags to be dropped off at 10-50 rang office they said should be with you soon. get a call back 2 mins later to say bags are still in office they will get them to me. 15 mins later dropped off to me by a postie who was on his way home at 11-20.

Been there myself, I hope you handed mail back!

[Letsby Avenue]

some posties use cars and say they can do most walks in under 2 hours. Well maybe that is bs, or they have easy walks. Believe me it does happen.

However the start time was a side issue. My main point was where do you stand as a casual or PT when it comes to working set hours? In my office during my 2 years with RM, they dont pay overtime to casuals. If you do 12 hours or work till its dark, you'll just get a 'thank you for working hard and helping us out'. Forget about overtime! The last time I enquired for doing over 12 hours the manager only authorised an extra 2 hours pay! As a result, Ive seen a few major bust ups when casuals are asked to do extra walks. Some have told the managers to eff off and walked out of the job. I dont blame them.

I was told by a postie that as a casual you dont have a leg to stand on, and the union wont help because you are not permanent. That was despite All the cauals in my office refusing to cross the picket line during the recent dispute.So in other words we were mugged by both sides because we were not affected by what the union was fighting for? He shrugged his shoulders. So should I hand back my membership untill i am made permanent? He also mentioned the reason why overtime is not handed out is because all offices have a set overtime budget. ITs best used for permanent staff, and dont want to go over budget paying it to casuals. Also there maybe bonuses at stake if they keep within the overtime budget. I forgot to ask, when offices receive bonus payments, do casuals receive it to or just pemanent ft staff?

Could anyone who knows the ins and outs of this enlighten me if anyone of the above is true

[Pat Ostman]

some posties use cars and say they can do most walks in under 2 hours. Well maybe that is bs, or they have easy walks. Believe me it does happen.

However the start time was a side issue. My main point was where do you stand as a casual or PT when it comes to working set hours? In my office during my 2 years with RM, they dont pay overtime to casuals. If you do 12 hours or work till its dark, you'll just get a 'thank you for working hard and helping us out'. Forget about overtime! The last time I enquired for doing over 12 hours the manager only authorised an extra 2 hours pay! As a result, Ive seen a few major bust ups when casuals are asked to do extra walks. Some have told the managers to eff off and walked out of the job. I dont blame them.

I was told by a postie that as a casual you dont have a leg to stand on, and the union wont help because you are not permanent. That was despite All the cauals in my office refusing to cross the picket line during the recent dispute.So in other words we were mugged by both sides because we were not affected by what the union was fighting for? He shrugged his shoulders. So should I hand back my membership untill i am made permanent? He also mentioned the reason why overtime is not handed out is because all offices have a set overtime budget. ITs best used for permanent staff, and dont want to go over budget paying it to casuals. Also there maybe bonuses at stake if they keep within the overtime budget. I forgot to ask, when offices receive bonus payments, do casuals receive it to or just pemanent ft staff?

Could anyone who knows the ins and outs of this enlighten me if anyone of the above is true

Ok....

If the union refuse to help, or more to the point, your union rep, go above them onto area. If they will not help then write an official letter to the CWU HQ and finally stop paying them! It seems, based on what you have said, your union rep is incompatent. Your other question is a little murkier to answer as you are not permanent (easier to get rid if you are being 'difficult'). Hopefully someone can help you about the two years served as that could be deemed as an inplied contract.

No, you do not have to do overtime, certainly not if you are not getting paid for it. Yes you can bring mail back as long as it is arranged with a manager beforehand. They say they do not pay overtime to casuals, then tell them that this casual does not do extra without being paid overtime! Overtime is best spent on permanent staff is it? Tell them to get the permanent staff to deliver it then, not treat you lot like complete mugs. What they are suggesting is againt employment laws and bordering on slavery. I am also sad to read that your collegues do not support you even when you supported them on strike. That's disgusting.

Never take out more mail than you can handle though, you said somewhere else you took out two rounds once, that's not helping yourself as you need to be taking out less, not more!

Things, of course, are easier said than done though. They can make your life hell, piss you about or generally find ways to get you. People say if you do your job properly you'll be safe but trust me everyone slips up occasionally and it's then that they'll be waiting. If they really want to get you, they will.

[POSTMAN]

You are a casual,so in RM's eyes you are a nobody.
If you refuse to to work 6 hrs for 4 hrs pay they will just f**k you off.I have spoken to many casuals and this has happened.
You will not get any benefits,bonuses ect tbf as you are not a permenant part of the business.

We've stopped casuals being abused at our place but some i've spoken to have a nightmare and love coming to our place as at least what we give them is managable.
Some casuals in other offices have not managed to finish what they have been given and have had their whole days pay stopped.

Have you tried applying for job on the RM website,you never know you may get lucky.

[Letsby Avenue]

a friend of mine who walked out of the office we worked in, 6 months ago, applied for and got a job with a fixed hour contract in another london office. So he is a pt and not a casual? The irony, was the dom at the office he gave the v sign to, gave him a good reference. I will have a look on the rm site.

[POSTMAN]

Where bouts in Lon have you been working,PM me if you're worried about peeps looking in.

[coxie]

He might be telling the truth, there's a few that finish at 11 in my office too, the get in early gang who fly out the door as well.

[doomed]

11am !!! Rubbish.. Postman/women are unable to leave their offices before 9am....You reckon it takes less than 2hrs to complete a walk.. Your a ringer mate....

We leave at 8am

We a have a full timer who is fast and finished at 10.30 evry day. 450 drops

[stokes11eg]

Yes,sad but true, some peoplr do finish that early. They are usually drivers who somewhere along the line have dodged most ofthe drivers resposibilities--droppong folks of , drop bags etc. and they get away with it.

[doomed]

Yes,sad but true, some peoplr do finish that early. They are usually drivers who somewhere along the line have dodged most ofthe drivers resposibilities--droppong folks of , drop bags etc. and they get away with it.

He is on foot and bike

[patno1]

Being allowed out at 9 is wrong I was out of my office at 8.35 this morning different office different rules not always like that though friday didn`t get out out till 11am swings and roundabouts sometimes you win other times you lose.

[not me]

i always find it strange how early some can leave
we dont get final missorts till 9ish
so couldnt leave any earlier than when they are done

[Letsby Avenue]

just had a chat with my union rep, about being in the union as a casual. He agreed there is little that can be done for casuals, because if the union took up your greivance, the management can simply tell you not to come in again. Its legalised exploitation. would the permanent come on strike or in support of casuals? or will they take the 'he's only a casual' line. I would imagine the latter. Maybe others can correct me if Im wrong Besides we get paid 50p above the minimum wage, no sick pay, bonus pay or pension rights. I can not see a point in being in the union if Im not permanent, so thru my card and renewal forms in the bin.

[meercat]

Are you an employee of RM? If so you have the full rights and protection from unfair dismissal as the rest of us.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/casua ... 52827.html

Regardless of that yes you have the legal right to be paid for ALL the hours you work and your manager is breaking the law by not paying you.
If you don't want to be taken for a muppet by these criminals then you need to be proactive.

Get a diary and make entries about what is going on at work. Note the times you worked what you said to your manager and what he said back. MAke notes of other people getting the same treatment.

Next step - you need to be clear and tell them you want paid for the hours it takes you to do the job. If you can get a hidden camera or recording of what he says to you and you get that over several occasions you have all you need to win an unfair dismissal case once they sack you. It looks like they will sack you for telling them you want to work your hours or be paid for them so be prepared for that and have all the evidence you need to win your day in court. See the CAB for more advice on employment law. Also join the union immediately and call you 'area rep' forget the idiot rep in your office. If he is no help call CWU HQ.

I can't believe you are being treated like a slave. The GMB supported these workers all the way to the Court of Appeal so why can't the CWU? SHAMEFUL.

ALSO - It might say in your contract how much time you must work in a day if asked? You might have signed up to work 'upto hrs per day' or something? If so you have to work till 8hrs is up (with 40min paid breakin that time). If there is no such clause and you want to finish after 4hrs you must tell them before you leave how long you can work to and arrange before you leave what will happen to the mail you can't deliver. I would imagine you must be fair in giving them a 'reasonable' ammount of your time just as they must be 'reasonable' and not ask you to work say for 14hrs.

[Letsby Avenue]

thanks for your post meercat. This whole thing occurred around 19 months ago not long after I joined RM. Me and a fellow casual finished around 6.30 doing over 12 hours. When we raised this with the said manager he blew his top, saying it would not take the regulars that long etc etc. We were not skiving, we all want to finish early like the regulars who do of course. He said he'll only pay us an extra 2 hours, and that we'll have to get cracking to finish earlier. He kind of insinutated we may not have our 3 months rolling contracts renewed if we were that slow. However he always asked us to do extra. Now would we have been within our rights to go to the senior management or unions to make a complaint for not being paid for the hours worked? Was he in the wrong for paying us less than the hours we worked? Could it be he's committting some kind of fraud and pocketing the difference or is that unlikely? Or is it about some managers 'protecting' their overtime budget, so if it stays within it, they get bonuses? We werent asking for 'overtime', just to be paid for the hours worked, which is not the same

Another point about that manager, he is the rudest by far I ever met, is basically a bully and looks like a typical doorman or football hooligan. The irony of all ironies, is that he was a union rep for over 5 years before he became a manager. I was told he would lead angry revolts and showdowns with management when they changed agreements without discussing it with the union first. This goes back to my other thread about ex unions reps making the worse managers! He does not work in my office any more, and suffice to say since I started this thread, the two managers we currently have, (both female) do pay you for hours worked.When I reminded them afterwards the times I actually finished, (some staff who live nearby saw me), they did add on the hours the following week. Ive noticed this in my last two payslips. They just want you to do the work and dont bring it back unless they can not be physically delivered.

So back to getting union support as a casual. If I had a greivance, of say a different matter the union could support me? The reason I say this, is because I have seen a large turn over of casual and agency staff. Im sure the reps and staff must have noticed some of the dismissals were frivoulous? Ive never heard any intervene or raise it staff meetings. Could the reps intervene anyway?