Royal Mail staff in Ramadan holiday row

[ramone]

Yes, I agree mostly with what you say! Going back to my childhood and the area I lived in, there was a clear divide between the two main religions, but, we tolerated each other and
indulged in good natured banter---hopefully, as we become even more religiously diverse, somewhere along the line, that tolerance will come to the fore again, and even more hopefully, the incomers will respect our religious beliefs as we are made ro respect theirs!

Are we talking about people of the muslim faith? Islam does not have a good record on tolerance or others beliefs - check out http://www.ex-muslim.org.uk/indexMembers.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - some of the issues from the religion of "peace" it also show's "the incomers" are just as secularist as the rest of us are. The vast majority people in this country are agnostic / athiest - see Britain http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - its about time as group we stood up and demanded our rights as non believers to live in peace and harmoney without being dictated to by the religious community. I am not going to dictated to be someones imaginary friend.

[fishtank]

I am not going to dicated to be someones imaginary friend.

In what way does someone's religious beliefs dictate any part of your life?

[ramone]

I am not going to dicated to be someones imaginary friend.

In what way does someone's religious beliefs dictate any part of your life?

Hi Fishtank
At the moment - none - because I do not allow people to impose their religious beliefs on me - I would never dream of imposing my beliefs on someone else because that is dictatorship. However, when people are using religion to indoctrinate children through prayer, misinformation of fact, subservience to an invisible man and not to question aspects of their own lives I think we should all be concerned - don't you?

[stokes11eg]

Yes, I agree mostly with what you say! Going back to my childhood and the area I lived in, there was a clear divide between the two main religions, but, we tolerated each other and
indulged in good natured banter---hopefully, as we become even more religiously diverse, somewhere along the line, that tolerance will come to the fore again, and even more hopefully, the incomers will respect our religious beliefs as we are made ro respect theirs!

Are we talking about people of the muslim faith? Islam does not have a good record on tolerance or others beliefs - check out http://www.ex-muslim.org.uk/indexMembers.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - some of the issues from the religion of "peace" it also show's "the incomers" are just as secularist as the rest of us are. The vast majority people in this country are agnostic / athiest - see Britain http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - its about time as group we stood up and demanded our rights as non believers to live in peace and harmoney without being dictated to by the religious community. I am not going to dictated to be someones imaginary friend.

[fishtank]

However, when people are using religion to indoctrinate children through prayer, misinformation of fact, subservience to an invisible man and not to question aspects of their own lives I think we should all be concerned - don't you?

I think you may be 5,000 years too late ramone...give or take a few thousand years.
That's kind of how religion has always worked....i'm no fan but i'm not concerned on a personal level.We've always had radicals and we've always had zealots and despite the scare tactics of the tabloids there are no more now than any other time in history.
24 hour news is a wonderful thing but it can skew peoples perception of reality.

[ramone]

Fishtank
I think you may be 5,000 years too late ramone...give or take a few thousand years.
That's kind of how religion has always worked....i'm no fan but i'm not concerned on a personal level.We've always had radicals and we've always had zealots and despite the scare tactics of the tabloids there are no more now than any other time in history.
24 hour news is a wonderful thing but it can skew peoples perception of reality.[/quote]

Thanks for the reply Fish tank - I do take your point on the 24 hour news - I maybe 5000 years to late but does that mean we allow it to go on for another 5000 years - People have died of disease and illness even longer but we do attempt to cut it out and hopefully eradicate it. On a personal level are you not concerned with young children having their genitals mutilated in the name of their parents religion? On a personal level are you not concerned with young children being told that if they "sin" they will be dragged into hell and ripped apart and tormented for eternity? On a personal level are you not concerned that a religious person can deny a job to a person because of their gender or sexuality and not be prosecuted? On a personal level are you not concerned women are deemed as second class citizens?
Back to the thread - If this situation happened in my office I would back Royal Mail on this - and that is something I thought I would never hear myself saying

[Straight4ward]

Back to the thread - If this situation happened in my office I would back Royal Mail on this

Actually, I wouldn't. I favour them having the time off, just on the grounds of tolerance and trying to help people.
I'd cheerfully swap a day off with someone if it helped or work my day off for either pay or a day in lieu. I've done this quite a few times in the past for all manner of reasons and have never found it a hardship.

[fishtank]

Well ramone the thing is...i'm more concerned about non-religious physical and mental abuse of children...it's far more common...i'm more concerned about non-religious sexual and gender discrimination....it's far more common.
The danger in becoming too obsessed with the abuses of a minority within a particular religion is that...
A...You tar the entire religion with the same brush....think muslim...think 9/11....think terrorist.
B...You allow the abuses of many outside that particular obsession to go unchecked.

[ramone]

Back to the thread - If this situation happened in my office I would back Royal Mail on this

Actually, I wouldn't. I favour them having the time off, just on the grounds of tolerance and trying to help people.
I'd cheerfully swap a day off with someone if it helped or work my day off for either pay or a day in lieu. I've done this quite a few times in the past for all manner of reasons and have never found it a hardship.

That is your choice and right - you are a fine human being - but would you do all of the above if you wanted that particular day off say to get to the airport for example?

[clashcityrocker]

Well ramone the thing is...i'm more concerned about non-religious physical and mental abuse of children...it's far more common...i'm more concerned about non-religious sexual and gender discrimination....it's far more common.
The danger in becoming too obsessed with the abuses of a minority within a particular religion is that...
A...You tar the entire religion with the same brush....think muslim...think 9/11....think terrorist.
B...You allow the abuses of many outside that particular obsession to go unchecked.

[ramone]

Well ramone the thing is...i'm more concerned about non-religious physical and mental abuse of children...it's far more common...i'm more concerned about non-religious sexual and gender discrimination....it's far more common.
The danger in becoming too obsessed with the abuses of a minority within a particular religion is that...
A...You tar the entire religion with the same brush....think muslim...think 9/11....think terrorist.
B...You allow the abuses of many outside that particular obsession to go unchecked.

Again thanks for the reply
I have no issue with law abiding religious people, which most of them are good people, but as people who support these religions whose followers carry out these acts. When do religious people stand up and be counted on these issues (was there a Catholic protest at the weekend regarding the sex abuse of children?) No,the sheep turned up unquestioning as ever. - I am pleased to see you are concerned with the abuse of children and if my last post seemed to imply that you were not concerned about these issues please accept my apologies. I have worked within the child protection arena and understand the issues of child abuse in the wider community. My concerns with religion is that the dogma of secracy is endemic and promoted within it to protect the establishment of the church and religion. Good people do good things, evil people do evil things only religion can make good people do evil things

[Straight4ward]

but would you do all of the above if you wanted that particular day off say to get to the airport for example?

Sorry I'm not trying to portray myself as a saint. If I had a prior engagement then I would want to honour it.I was merely trying to make the point that there are usually ways around something and there could well have been a number of people who would have been prepared to swap a day had they been asked but, it would appear, that people weren't approached. That's all.

[clashcityrocker]

Sorry I'm not trying to portray myself as a saint.

Then why do you have it in your name St. raight4ward?

[Straight4ward]

Yes, but you have lash in yours - - - you probably get more fun!

[ramone]

Yes, but you have lash in yours - - - you probably get more fun!

but I have a mone (moan) in mine