National Agreement news

[POSTMAN]

Only the introduction of it.
The same Chief executive is due to meet the PEC next week to explain the situation of Royal Mail finances and plan going forward.

So what's your thoughts on what 'could' happen dingo?

[Martin Walsh]

Look there are a number of different things which need to remembered.

One is that we have a national agreement which was backed by the majority of the CWU members who voted and was agreed with Royal Mail and was assisted by both Acas and Roger Poole . This agreement was and is still the one that holds the field and includes the mail centre review process and the delivery revisons process and pay increases.

The second issue is that the new Chief executive was not around at that point and may or may not agree that this was the right deal to do and lets just say she does not thing mail centres are closing faster enough or that delivery office revisons are not going in quicker enough or that a number of managers need to be made redundant or that Royal Mail made a mistake when they went from areas to regions. Can she really decide to change tact over the agreement given the fact that some of the longest running disputes in this unions history came about last year to achieve an agreement on modernisation. In fact dirty harry everyone who was balloted was balloted on reaching an agreement on modernisation. Can she really try and get out of it ? I doubt it very much.

The third issue is very real and that is the lack of cash , due to declining mail volumes in particular in the outward operation and the in ability to borrow money to fund the short cash flow. Now that has the protential to cause a number of problems with their plan including will they have the money to fund MTSF in order to realsie the savings by voluntary means. Notwithstanding the pension issue which is massive and of course has been refered the Pension regulator over the 38 year repayment term.

However bearing in mind she is appointed by the Government it does mean that privatisation becomes attractive to Royal Mail. However the unions view is that all these problems can be resolved without the need of a sell off.

[parky]

look Dingo you seen to be a man who cares whats hapening in his area/division well youre members are very lucky...

up hear we have a very diferent sort of rep. one that if he had took his head out of his arse would have noticed that when he went to all the papers saying oldham, stockport, bolton, crewe and liverpool mail centres wouldnt close because it wasnt agreed and moving people such a way from there houses wasnt fair because they usually get to work on a bike! the arguments he used were s**t... all them have closed or are just closing.

this agreement was not wanted up here and you and some others made it out to be the deal of the century.. well now it turns out the managers are going to can it anyway because they aint saving enough? you are back on telling us in the same language managers use that the agreement might be s**t because the new manager doesnt like it but shes stuck with it. well so are we!!!

you boys who dont work in the conditions we do havent got a clue what its like not knowing whats going on and if are jobs are safe.. the biggest worry for fat boy billy and that useless ward and all the full time reps are they may have to get jobs were they have to work for a living and then get a real mortgage that has to be paid back at normal rates.

the union says all these things can be resolved without privatisation?? well the arguments better be a lot better than the s**t ones forwarded to stop the mail closures up here... you full time boys take our subs and blow them on hotels and drinks and posh meals enough so you better come up with something better than the public will get there junk mail and bills later in the day because were i drink nobody would care if they never arrived... im sorry but how are we going to argue against people who run massive business's around the world with a couple of fat blokes who used to deliver letters? they are not up to the job and also all the full time boys are good at fighting for somebody to keep there jobs because they broke a rule but do you think you are up to this sort of opposition? because i dont!

[Martin Walsh]

Parky those mail centres were set to close before the national agreement was even being discussed. In fact it was the christmas of 2009 when the ballots were coducted.

So its had nothing to do with the national agreement. Instead it had everything to do with Royal Mail wanting to rationliase the North West Mail Centres.

There was a call for a national dispute on the issue but the reality was that it would have to come down intially to the mail centres who were involved first and the results were a mixed bag as we know.

Now how it is the fault of wardy , Billy or any full time official I dont know becasue it was a very differcult issue where Royal Mail wanted to play mail centre off against mail centre and some were going to gain and some were going to close.

I have experienced mail centres close and its damm differcult as you have to decide wether you protect bricks and mortar or you protect people and that is the balance.

Now you may see this different and you may come at it from a different view.

But mail centres were closing long before this agreement and they will close after this agreement has ended. Why because of DSA , automation and one outward pass. I dont like , you dont like and we will fight it but will it be enough ?

[parky]

Dingo i know when they closed i was moved... my point was yes it was decided they would close but we still had the hole business of our union bloke going on telly and going to the papers saying they wouldnt. and his ability to put accross an argument that meant anythink. i mean are these people up to the job of fighting against privatasaion? i dont think so, yes we beat it in the past but this country is now on its arse and needs money..

unlucky for us now is people dont care when there mail gets delivered its a crap argument, people dont care that they dont know who there postman is, its a crap argument.

if this agreement is being canned and as you say it isnt because moya is stuck with it that does not fill me with joy, i voted against it because all it did was look after union officials and not the union members.

[woofwoof]

Parky those mail centres were set to close before the national agreement was even being discussed. In fact it was the christmas of 2009 when the ballots were coducted.

So its had nothing to do with the national agreement. Instead it had everything to do with Royal Mail wanting to rationliase the North West Mail Centres.

There was a call for a national dispute on the issue but the reality was that it would have to come down intially to the mail centres who were involved first and the results were a mixed bag as we know.

Now how it is the fault of wardy , Billy or any full time official I dont know becasue it was a very differcult issue where Royal Mail wanted to play mail centre off against mail centre and some were going to gain and some were going to close.

I have experienced mail centres close and its damm differcult as you have to decide wether you protect bricks and mortar or you protect people and that is the balance.

Now you may see this different and you may come at it from a different view.

But mail centres were closing long before this agreement and they will close after this agreement has ended. Why because of DSA , automation and one outward pass. I dont like , you dont like and we will fight it but will it be enough ?

so why no news to members in the north east section the 90 days was over ages ago the members no f**k all in the mail centres

[DirtyHarry]

Oppose management's cost-cutting plans, modernisation is a smoke-screen.
Oppose, forcefully. Do not collude, in any way, shape, or form.
That, and only that, is the way to go.

[Martin Walsh]

I have no idea why your division has not put out comms as yet maybe because they have proposed an alternative to Royal Mail`s options of moving from 9 mail centres to 4 and are awaiting Royal Mail`s response.

Certainly in London we have put out comms but it is down to each Division to decide when they communicate in line with the mail centre review process.

[parky]

Parky those mail centres were set to close before the national agreement was even being discussed. In fact it was the christmas of 2009 when the ballots were coducted.

So its had nothing to do with the national agreement. Instead it had everything to do with Royal Mail wanting to rationliase the North West Mail Centres.

There was a call for a national dispute on the issue but the reality was that it would have to come down intially to the mail centres who were involved first and the results were a mixed bag as we know.

Now how it is the fault of wardy , Billy or any full time official I dont know becasue it was a very differcult issue where Royal Mail wanted to play mail centre off against mail centre and some were going to gain and some were going to close.

I have experienced mail centres close and its damm differcult as you have to decide wether you protect bricks and mortar or you protect people and that is the balance.

Now you may see this different and you may come at it from a different view.

But mail centres were closing long before this agreement and they will close after this agreement has ended. Why because of DSA , automation and one outward pass. I dont like , you dont like and we will fight it but will it be enough ?

so why no news to members in the north east section the 90 days was over ages ago the members no f**k all in the mail centres

because the same as in the nw the union has no real argument against them at whatever is planned by rm will be what is done!

[Member 34]

RM have cash flow problems? hmmm

I've just had a brainwave.
Why not sell all those vans parked up in a field somewhere not being used?
Then, to replace the park and loop method of delivery, we could use bikes because they're cheaper to run, maintain, and provide a more efficient delivery model.



We truly are working for idiots.

[fishtank]

This seems to me less like a cash flow problem and more like a "cherry picking" the agreement problem.
Will revisions be sanctioned without the use of the agreed measurement tools dingo?

[POSTMAN]

Cash flow problem,are the union going to believe that.

Are we saying these business brains who can forcast how many pens we will use over the next 3 years are not clever enough after months of negotiations to know what is round the corner?

While most of us on here will slag them off lets get real,they know everything and they knew everything last year.
It's all bollox,they are trying to pull the wool over the unions eyes.
You telling me they are going to fall for it ffs!

There are a lot of very clever and clued up people at RM HQ.

[macphee1]

This seems to me less like a cash flow problem and more like a "cherry picking" the agreement problem.
Will revisions be sanctioned without the use of the agreed measurement tools dingo?

Some news from Scotland with regard to agreed tools.

selfstarter revisions.doc

[fishtank]

This seems to me less like a cash flow problem and more like a "cherry picking" the agreement problem.
Will revisions be sanctioned without the use of the agreed measurement tools dingo?

Some news from Scotland with regard to agreed tools.

selfstarter revisions.doc

Cheers macfee1

[BELIAL]

This seems to me less like a cash flow problem and more like a "cherry picking" the agreement problem.
Will revisions be sanctioned without the use of the agreed measurement tools dingo?

Some news from Scotland with regard to agreed tools.

selfstarter revisions.doc

Thanks for that.

Plain as the nose on your face now, Scotland is the target and when it gets screwed the rest will follow. Blitzkrieg management ,fiddle the figures;break agreements ;smash the union. Who came out first in 09 and why? Which area was at the hub of quality fidling?
Guess where the upper 'docile' offices will be , the offices you will all be required to match