are union in royal mail pockets

[fishtank]

Dingo there is absolutely no doubt that workload has increased in the last 10 years.
Some of that has been our own doing with regards to the 5 day week but a great deal of it is related to the 60,000 job losses and the movement in some offices away from full-time to part-time working.

None of this extra workload has ever even been acknowledged properly by either RM or the CWU,all we ever hear is the constant bleating about falling volumes and lost revenue and how we have to accept this and that.

In steps the IWT and all that seems to have achieved is to LIMIT the cuts RM want but they are still cuts on top of what are already unachievable workloads in some offices....should we throw a party...i think not.

Last years dispute for me anyway was not about money...it was about trying to bring about an end to Royal Mails slash for cash policies.
It hasn't worked...it is just done with full union involvement now.

[Martin Walsh]

Fishtank traffic levels have reduced that is the truth. However it is true that job numbers have reduced quicker meaning that in some offices people are handling indivdually more work. However it is also true over the last 10 years we have more work which is done by mech.

Now your second point the CWU has recognised this hence the Birmingham traffic audit presentation to the board , the union also campained to get changes to both the indoor workload and geo route plus with full involvlement. Last year the cwu was not involved at all in the planning of the revisons.
We now have fratigue studies , plus live enviorment trialling to get further changes.

We have an engagement process which means that every office should have an outlet to ensure that management are adhering to the agreement.

We now have a national agreement which puts the union which means all the members at the heart of the negotiations and the planning of what happens in their office instead of a DSM saying this office needs to make this amount of cuts to achieve the budget.

The altenative and where we were last year is that management just told an office thats the amount of hours

[Big Daz]

My DOM wont budge from the model week as hes been told to use that and not yet been told any different. That means potentially if I dont like the model week being used for my D.O and think a different set of figures need to be used then dissagrement will have to be regstered.


So when do DOMs get told the model week is up for discussion as per the LTB or are we singing from two different hym sheets?

[dvbuk55]

My DOM wont budge from the model week as hes been told to use that and not yet been told any different. That means potentially if I dont like the model week being used for my D.O and think a different set of figures need to be used then dissagrement will have to be regstered.


So when do DOMs get told the model week is up for discussion as per the LTB or are we singing from two different hym sheets?

What do you think? Has final agreement been reached on the IWT and Guidelines or is the chattering still ongoing?

As for disagreement ......................well I think we've already gone down that route.

[dvbuk55]

Fishtank traffic levels have reduced that is the truth. However it is true that job numbers have reduced quicker meaning that in some offices people are handling indivdually more work. However it is also true over the last 10 years we have more work which is done by mech.

Now your second point the CWU has recognised this hence the Birmingham traffic audit presentation to the board , the union also campained to get changes to both the indoor workload and geo route plus with full involvlement. Last year the cwu was not involved at all in the planning of the revisons.
We now have fratigue studies , plus live enviorment trialling to get further changes.

We have an engagement process which means that every office should have an outlet to ensure that management are adhering to the agreement.

We now have a national agreement which puts the union which means all the members at the heart of the negotiations and the planning of what happens in their office instead of a DSM saying this office needs to make this amount of cuts to achieve the budget.

The altenative and where we were last year is that management just told an office thats the amount of hours

You're not bloody involved now - you're merely paying lip service to whatever RM want. If you don't think people are doing more work for less pay you really are in neverland. Ask any part timer who is doing 3,4, 5 lots of household if he is doing more work for less money, and packets? they're through the roof. Are you sure you aren't a manager dingo?

[dvbuk55]

Bigger workload for less money ? We are not on price work we on an hourly Dvbuk and providing the tools for the job are in place then we all have to get used to working our full hours.

I was in Royal Mail when we had traffic related bonus schemes and back then people actually embaced extra traffic. Now no one likes extra work except those who now know that chasing time as had its time.

You say people are doing more for less money but you know thats not true, Yes some lost out on the door to door but a lot more gained and now its being paid when on sick leave and annual leave and not everyone is get additonal door to door.

Anyone who has been in Royal Mail since 2003 will know that wages have increased in a big way , now I accept there is always room for improvement but for heaven sake no one can say that pay has not improved in those years.

Did you mean piece work dingo? We've worked our full hours for a number of years something your band of warriors obviously haven't because you seem obsessed with "making time".


Some lost out on the D2D - yes they did, actually the poor sods who were delivering them. They must have fallen in the loser category of the winners and losers mentality which appears to be union policy these days.


2003 dingo is almost a decade ago and have we not actually paid for most of the changes with our money as we have with this "deal of the century".

[BELIAL]

Coo ,this is a good one. One side makes valid points then blows it by saying the only solution is to throw in the towel and hand yourself over to the YES MEN. Then the other side launches a robust defense and blows it by telling you that you are £20 a week better off and doing less work.
For what it's worth both your arguments fail to reflect my working experience.

[Big Daz]

My DOM wont budge from the model week as hes been told to use that and not yet been told any different. That means potentially if I dont like the model week being used for my D.O and think a different set of figures need to be used then dissagrement will have to be regstered.


So when do DOMs get told the model week is up for discussion as per the LTB or are we singing from two different hym sheets?

What do you think? Has final agreement been reached on the IWT and Guidelines or is the chattering still ongoing?

As for disagreement ......................well I think we've already gone down that route.

dvbuk55

You keep overlooking that dissagreement is STILL a bona fide part of the IR framework, all that has changed is that the powers that be want a little more effort put into resolving differences at local level rather than passing issues up at the first hurdle.

If I and my mbrs think the the average of weeks 11 to 17 is not suitable and the DOM says sorry Im standing by that set of figures then dissagrement will be registered in line with the IR framework and the spirit of the 2010 and beyond.


I sincerley hope that the new IR framework if it ever happens will still have a method for utilisng help from senior managers/reps when the local parties are struggling to agree.

[dvbuk55]

It's not me that has forgotten that disagreement is part of the IR framework - it's the application of the disagreement procedure that has changed by agreement with the CWU and RM.

[MinisterofCucumber]

Interesting thread and good debate,can i jump in to point out a few and off topic things...

The fact that both Dingo and Lovejoy misspell the word situation as 'situration' has got to be more than a coincidence.

Never noticed that Lovejoy did it but i can 100% assure you they are not the same person.

Apologies to Lovejoy, I was getting him mixed up with The Truth!

You will see what I mean if you type the word 'situration' into the search function.

If I was Dingo, and had his atrocious spelling, I would think twice before masquerading as a different poster. Please don't tell me he's one of the union's top negotiators.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

BTW - a single statement followed by some figures from me:

No The CWU are not in Royal Mails pockets, but IMHO the agreement certainly has meant a change of emphasis (see http://overpaidunderworked.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for a more involved post).


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As an aside I decided to check my accounts and see what changes have occurred on matched weeks from 09 to 2010 on D2D and ESA payments and Delivery Supplement. These are recorded figures from my own accounts and therefore are obviously only specific to me.

The weeks included are 12 Jun 09- 4 Sep 09 and 11 Jun 10 - 3 Sep 10

D2D payments = £160.22 (including 3 weeks when on holiday or no D2D)
ESA/Pay Protection 2007 = £160.81

Total Payments over 13 weeks = £321.03

Delivery Supplement = 13 x £20.60 = £267.60 (coincidently includes 3 weeks on holiday or No D2Ds)

Total Loss so far £53.43 or an average loss of £4.11 per week


Projected loss based on these figures over year approx £200.

[dvbuk55]

BTW - a single statement followed by some figures from me:

No The CWU are not in Royal Mails pockets, but IMHO the agreement certainly has meant a change of emphasis (see http://overpaidunderworked.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for a more involved post).


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As an aside I decided to check my accounts and see what changes have occurred on matched weeks from 09 to 2010 on D2D and ESA payments and Delivery Supplement. These are recorded figures from my own accounts and therefore are obviously only specific to me.

The weeks included are 12 Jun 09- 4 Sep 09 and 11 Jun 10 - 3 Sep 10

D2D payments = £160.22 (including 3 weeks when on holiday or no D2D)
ESA/Pay Protection 2007 = £160.81

Total Payments over 13 weeks = £321.03

Delivery Supplement = 13 x £20.60 = £267.60 (coincidently includes 3 weeks on holiday or No D2Ds)

Total Loss so far £53.43 or an average loss of £4.11 per week


Projected loss based on these figures over year approx £200.

Ah Thing is TBT you have fallen in to the losers category - if you were part time with the same amount of D2D you'd be even worse off and an even bigger loser. I on the other hand who do not deliver D2D have made money Or as dingo puts it I'm a winner, even though I haven't got a pair

[Night Tonic]

Interesting thread and good debate,can i jump in to point out a few and off topic things...

The fact that both Dingo and Lovejoy misspell the word situation as 'situration' has got to be more than a coincidence.

Never noticed that Lovejoy did it but i can 100% assure you they are not the same person.

Apologies to Lovejoy, I was getting him mixed up with The Truth!

You will see what I mean if you type the word 'situration' into the search function.

If I was Dingo, and had his atrocious spelling, I would think twice before masquerading as a different poster. Please don't tell me he's one of the union's top negotiators.

Oh yes? Another one suffering from paranoia, even drawing that ye olde and tired cliche of "you must be a manager" earlier in the thread. Told you this was hilarious, even clutching at the concept that more disapproved of the deal simply because they didn't vote. Classic implosion here me thinks. Think I'll make a round of sandwiches.

[BELIAL]

Think I'll make a round of sandwiches.

Worth a try, everybody must be good at something

[Big Daz]

TBT

What happens when you add on the increase to basic pay are you still down, break even or slightly up?

What 2010 did was restucture pay with OPG's with plenty of variance in how any given OPG was affected, rather than give us a straightforward payrise.