joint statement on deliveries due out

[oypostie]

Still waiting for extra DTD on my delivery

Lucky barsteward. 4 or 5 every week on mine. Can't wait for those lovely, busy Christmas weeks

[andy2007]

Ok Dvbuk and others who are quick to slag the agreement off what would you have done different.

The facts the union had were the machines were purchased , the CDVs were purchased , Royal Mail were saying they were no longer willing to turn away business in the unaddressed market , and that they wanted to standardise perfromance across the industry by moving everyone up to the level of the highest performing offices in the UK and they wanted to reduce mail centres. In addition they wanted to change the workplan to one outward pass and one inward pass which a lot of people have failed to grasp how significant that plan is.

Now lets examine each one of those , Walk sequencing machines with the money from the Government , the union could not stop Royal Mail purchasing them and we could not become some modern day luddites. Now when you do have your walk sequencing revison you will understand how that changes your working life in a major way.

You will recieve appoxmately 60% of your work on the first wave and some offices will be able to get that work in before 0600 but depending on your location some will recieve that work after 0600. Now that work which normally forms your ips will no go straight to your prep frame. Your only IPS will be packets , flats and rejects.

Your second 40% clears a mail centre by about 5 in the morning , that then needs to be transported to the MPU which houses the walk sequencing machines and then the normal plan is to run the office furthest away from the MPU first in batchs of appoxmately 12 walks, each batch has to run 3 times and then once that office is ready then a 7.5 tonne van from the mail centre will take that to the delivery office. Some small offices have chosen to have call and collect which is a van from their own office picking work up from the MPU but for larger offices this is not an option. Now the van from teh mail centre has to suit their duty pattern . Now some offices will recieve their work earlier than others and some will recieve their work as late as 10 in the morning. Now Royal Mail stated that they would not agree to stop running the machines on a saturday therefore they wanted a longer Saturday duty. The union knew that whilst longer saturdays was never going to be popular , the fact remained that delivery offices all had different finishing times some very early and some as late as 3.

Well, for a start, you could arrange for the work to leave the MC earlier. The Public, and in particular, businesses, need to recieve their Mail earlier, NOT later. Now I know that it would cause problems for the MC (and RDC) Posties. But no more so, than Delivery Posties. And we have annual revisions of the Logistics Network, so the van times could be changed during that. But if the work gets to the MPU earlier, it get's processed earlier. And therefore, turns up at the DOs earlier. Prolem solved, eh?

Now Royal Mail did threaten at one stage to not have two waves of work and only have work on the second wave which would have meant that all work would arrive in the delivery unit later and the job would simply become a part time industry. Instead the union achieved a 70% national average of full time jobs, plus a committment to less Saturdays.

So what's wrong with it all going in the earlier wave?

Now its very easy to moan about things , but what would you have done, remember you have to reprsent 130 thousand members some very strong members and some very weak sectons of the membership.

Now lets look at CDVs, when I first starting on deliveries 35lb meant a delivery anything over was either given to an assistant or was paid at overtime. Now it is not uncommon for delivery postamn and women to have over 10 bags. So what delivery tools were avaiblable tot hem some offices had good arrangements bag drops ect but equally a lot of offices still pile them into their car and work from their car. Now Royal Mail decided that they would adopt CDVs , now I know some people dont like working with others but sorry if it abolishes the use of cars and limits the amount of back injuries then tough. You dont have to be best mates with your partner . So tell me what would you have done different, as a union we have had campaign after campaign about not using cars ?

Now we have walk sequencing which is reducing IPS and pre time, and we have a growing market in unadddressed mail. We have conference policies to have door to door into workload in order to protect jobs. The average payment was £12 ,and some offices did not do them at all ,some had door to door barrons . So in a declining market did the union reject new work or did it get it into workload and get ROYAL mAIL TO PAY TWICE ONCE IN THE WAY OF WORKLOAD VIA A REVISION AND SECOND IN THE WAY OF A 52 WEEK SUPPLEMENT PAID PERMANENT ADDITION TO BASIC PAY. That means when Royal Mail automate it and its easy to do once you have 6 tehn you will still have money protected. Plus the union has got the right to review extra revenue. So what would you have done reject the increase in door to door , try and fight for an early shift payment hen you know under walk sequencing very few will qulaify and knowing under pay and mod it was included in the agreement that grandfather rights would only apply if their was no pay simplifaction.

But it's vital, to make sure that the outdoor element is achievable. In particular, when it comes to the speeds you expect the Delivery Posties to walk at. And of course, taking the weather in the Summer, into account.

Its easy to have an opinion and it`s easy to play to the gallery but tell me what the alternative was.

Yes, and there's plenty more where these comments came from. I don't have all the answers. I seriously doubt that any individual does. But when people are told: "This is the deal, there's no plan B. Accept it, or we're scewed". Then what do you expect from us?
A pat on the back?

[Martin Walsh]

No Andy I dont but what I do expect if their is a geniune oppostion and by that I mean a group who oppose the agreement then I would expect them to have a plan b.

However there is no such group. When we opposed the Way forward we had an alternative. In fact after the first one got rejected we got some included in the agreement.

The fact is whilst I think this site is useful , it is not an alternative to an open and honest face to face debate within the union. The reason being is that everyone on here are anonymous and we have no idea if they have an hidden agenda like they use to do two or three walks of d2d per week , or that they come in early before their time or drive their own car, or if they are in fact talking the truth.

I get told by my mates and thankfully Dvbuk I do have quite a few not to come on here as most on here dont seem to represnt the views of the members I see, however I do so becasue I do think that some of the issues on here do need a debate and that more information is needed for members but this site has chased away already some of their souces of information like lovejoy who I know well and if its not careful will chase away more.

One of the rights of an open and inclusive union and in fact one of the rights of free speach is that we can disagree. That does not mean I or people like me who may argue different from you are wrong or are free game to be slagged off or indeed accused of being in managements pocket or selling out. Those who know me and there a few on this site will know none of those things are in any way true.

The truth is this agreement will be judged on whether we ensure that in deliveries we have fair and reasonable jobs , 75% full timers , with better attendances and reasonable average earnings after your year 2 revision. In mail centres it will be judged on not if a mail centre closes as whether we had an agreement or not mail centres would have closed as they did with no agreement like the North West. It will be judged on whether people have reasonable job offers and that no complusory redundancies are introduced.

Unless any one has forgotten there would have been no need for an agreement if Royal Mail had not purchased all the new machines and were not intent on changing its operations, the status quo was never an option.

[dvbuk55]

I'm glad you have some friends dingo that must be some consolation.

Just one question really, you keep harping on that there will be 75% full time - can you say how that is going to be achieved with 10% falling volumes year on year.
How is it going to be maintained and policed and how are you going to tackle shortfalls? As it is a National figure how is that supposed 75/25 split going to be any consolation to offices which already have 50/50, 60/40 etc? and get part timers full time work?

It's nonsense and any right thinking person realises it.

It is an indictment of the CWU that the information has to be disseminated through a forum and not through the official CWU website. The only operative word in the title is Workers and they are all on the shop floor.

[POSTMAN]

Didn't the CWU have a forum once?

[fishtank]

this site has chased away already some of their souces of information like lovejoy who I know well and if its not careful will chase away more.

No-one chased Lovejoy away....he did exactly what he wanted to and in fact did previously in 2007 he came on,he posted a bit,the deal was accepted,he told us the flavour of the forum was not to his taste and he left.
I am sure he will be back when he feels the need..... circa 2012 or earlier if this deal falls apart.
As far as chasing more away,that smacks a little of "it's my ball and i will decide who plays with it" but i'm sure the information will arrive here anyway when it is deemed necessary by those who posses it.

[POSTMAN]

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that matter.

[guvenor]

yes the cwu once had a forum but our officers in charge were being found out or wanting
also nothing on the forum was pro rm hence the reason for closing it to many home truths

[andy2007]

this site has chased away already some of their souces of information like lovejoy who I know well and if its not careful will chase away more.

No-one chased Lovejoy away....he did exactly what he wanted to and in fact did previously in 2007 he came on,he posted a bit,the deal was accepted,he told us the flavour of the forum was not to his taste and he left.
I am sure he will be back when he feels the need..... circa 2012 or earlier if this deal falls apart.
As far as chasing more away,that smacks a little of "it's my ball and i will decide who plays with it" but i'm sure the information will arrive here anyway when it is deemed necessary by those who posses it.

On the contrary. When people are attacked personally, rather than having their views challenged, or at times attacked. Then you can't balme them for wanting to leave. We try our best to stop pesonal attacks. Either by posting on the Forum, or via PMs. And if someone feels the need to report a post, and it contains personal attacks (or any other rule beach), or if we see one that's exteme. Then we deal with it via polite PM requsts to stop, warnings or temporary, or even permanent bans.

[fishtank]

No-one is questioning the rules Andy...just the ascertain that a certain poster was "chased away",..he wasn't,his job was done 'tis all.

[andy2007]

Dingo, I see your point about the annonymity of members on here. But sadly, it's neccesary. Particularly when people divulge informaion, which their Managers don't want in the Public Domain. I found that out the hard way, in my eary days on here. Originally, I made no secret of my identity on here. I didn't post my full name, or give out my phone number/Email address. But neither did I make any attempt to hide my location. And as I'm quite outspoken on certain apects of the job, it didn't take long for several of my collegues (and a couple of Managers) to work out who I am on here. So when I posted some accurate, and verfiable informtion on here. And asked for help for one of my collegues, who was adverely affected by the situation. I was told in no unertain terms, that I had to remove it, or face a disciplinary. Thankfully, by the time I got Home after my shift, there was a lot of helpful advice, and messages of suport. So I printed it off, and asked Postman to delete it for me. The printout was a great help to my collegue, at a very stresful time. But if I'd have been more careful to hide my true identity. I wouldn't have ended up being threatened with a disciplinary.

There have also been several cases of people actally being disiplined for things they've posted on here.

Now, as to the problem of insufficient numbers of people arguing their case in person, with Reps, and at meetings. Well, that's another issue entirely. And it's something which desperately needs to be addressed. Although I suspect that many of the most vocal RMC members, like me. Do do that already. Although I could be wrong.

[dvbuk55]

Didn't the CWU have a forum once?

Yes they did but like some posters on here they baulked at criticism.

[andy2007]

No-one is questioning the rules Andy...just the ascertain that a certain poster was "chased away",..he wasn't,his job was done 'tis all.

I don't know whether you're right about that or not. But he didn't just spend his time arguing that case. He also spent a lot of time in the general discussions. And more importantly at the time, providing us all with one of the very few sourcs of accurate information, during the secrecy stage. Where we were making big sacrifices, whilst getting NO information about what was going on!

I still think it's a major loss for RMC, that he left. I didn't always agree with him. And often argued against him, paricularly about the deal. But he's another one who I greatly repect, for having the guts to fight his case, against such a barage of opposition.

[dvbuk55]

No-one is questioning the rules Andy...just the ascertain that a certain poster was "chased away",..he wasn't,his job was done 'tis all.

I don't know whether you're right about that or not. But he didn't just spend his time arguing that case. He also spent a lot of time in the general discussions. And more importantly at the time, providing us all with one of the very few sourcs of accurate information, during the secrecy stage. Where we were making big sacrifices, whilst getting NO information about what was going on!

I still think it's a major loss for RMC, that he left. I didn't always agree with him. And often argued against him, paricularly about the deal. But he's another one who I greatly repect, for having the guts to fight his case, against such a barage of opposition.

Well the barrage of opposition must just have been on this site because it certainly didn't become apparent in the votes.

[Big Daz]

Didn't the CWU have a forum once?

Aye it did and dvbuk 55 used to chill in the shed thread