Full Timers Let Go AT My Office

[drb]

Well I know of 3 to four offices in the IR framework on this matter. The Way Forward still holds the field as does the Pay & Mod 2007,(thats why we are still absorbing). In fact the vacancies in the offices I know have been given to the reserves untill the matter is resolved. This was done on the interim agreement.

To be honest after we have chosen our attendance patterns,(with the minimum of 1 Saturday in 4),you will see an increase in part timers for sure.

[charlie1]

My understanding was that every employee should be given a contract of employment within a certain time scale. No permanent employees should be working without one and as for fixed term contracts, they should be renewed on their expiry date for individuals still required by the business. Royal Mail could be breaking the law if people are or have been working without proper up to date contracts of employment.

[charlie1]

According to the Directgov website fixed term contract employees must not be treated less favourably than permanent ones doing roughly the same job, without a good reason to do so. It says protection is provided against redundancy or dismissal if you are on a fixed term contract. The fact that Royal Mail have normally offered redundancy to the longest serving employees may just have set a precedent.

Hopefully some of this can be of use to our fellow workers currently under threat. I am no expert in law but hopefully the CWU employ the services of some that are.

[dubdaz]

Asked my ex area rep today about this and he said that after you've done two years on a fixed term contract you cannot be discriminated against and should be treated as the same as some one on a permanent contract.So if they want to reduce numbers in your office they have to ask everyone 'who wants EVR?' rather than terminate the fixed term men's contracts.If none want to go (hardly likely,their queueing up for EVR in my office) they would have to pay you redundancy money to go.
In Orpington (not my office) the DOM has misinterpreted the letter sent out and told the fixed term guys they'll be going. This ain't gonna happen and will go to disagreement if implemented.
At the end of the day Royalfail are panicking about the number of full time staff they imagine they'll need to get rid of when the sequencing machines kick in, but I cant see them being able to find the 25% needed to be part time, they're aren't that many people who can live on that wage. In my office the 25hr boys have all been told there's no more overtime to top up their money and they've got to make do with just the 25 hours. NONE of them I've spoken to are planning on sticking around much longer.

[smelly_cat_lady]

Just to update you on our fixed term contract situation.............Today we had a meeting with our DOM. He explained that of the 900 fixed term contracts in the country, 400 of them are in Kent - where we are. The letter is a warning that once the mail centres close, they will need to find those guys jobs so guess who's leaving the party? Bottom line: After the revision in our office and the closure of a local (ish) mail centre 'some of you will not have jobs with Royal Mail'. This was said to all 16 of us with our Union Rep there too.

One of our more erudite colleagues directly quoted the RM propaganda we received before voting on '2010 and Beyond' and the 'MTSF agreement' which clearly stated that the company were going to protect jobs and ensure that there would be no more redundancies. When questioned why we were now getting letters saying that we could be out of a job, his reply was 'that only applied to permanent full time staff'. Out - f***ing - rageous. Some of my colleagues have built their whole lives around the promise of 'job security' only to see their hopes dashed. So basically RM lied (nothing new there) and I can't help thinking that if all 900 of us knew that when we were casting our vote..........well, the outcome might have been somewhat different.

Union meeting Tues in which we should finally get an answer to the 2/4 years conundrum. One tiny glimmer of hope (already noted in this thread) is that RM have failed year after year to formally renew the contracts and get new ones signed and kept on file. This sloppy house keeping may yet be their undoing. We live in hope.

Finally, a question. Should RM and the union remain in disagreement and call for strike action, how many of you would strike for us?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I Would - an injury to one is an injury to all.

Now If Billy asked me to strike over privatisation that would be a more difficult one to answer

[resperin]

i thought there was more than 900 on FTC. besides they cant get rid of you on those bases; if there's a job for you to do how can they get rid of you? if they decide to offer vacancys at a DO as an option to MC staff when there isnt vacancy's then that's their problem. cant just kick people out, then instantly take on more people

i'm also an FTC. i've first raised concerns about this fixed term malark a couple months ago

[dvbuk55]

If there was a strike call for a legitimate reason, despite my position, I would strike without hesitation.

But, and I don't want to offend anyone, if there was any chance that the CWU would call a strike for 900 I would definitely bare my backside in Burtons window.
My reasons being, there was a call by 500 offices for strike action, industrial action in London and other places before they had their arm twisted to call a national ballot. Under the new agreement these problems are supposed to be sorted out locally before being passed up the line for action.

As for the legality? It may well be a case of take us to a tribunal, see if the CWU would back you - we pretty much know their response UNLESS it's a sure fire win.

[resperin]

If there was a strike call for a legitimate reason, despite my position, I would strike without hesitation.

But, and I don't want to offend anyone, if there was any chance that the CWU would call a strike for 900 I would definitely bare my backside in Burtons window.

do we know for sure what he said is true about it only being 900 people; that just seems to little for a 4 year period. must be a typo?

[dvbuk55]

If there was a strike call for a legitimate reason, despite my position, I would strike without hesitation.

But, and I don't want to offend anyone, if there was any chance that the CWU would call a strike for 900 I would definitely bare my backside in Burtons window.

do we know for sure what he said is true about it only being 900 people; that just seems to little - 4 year period - every vacancy for delivery postman opened in the last 4 years is a FTC.

Is it? Believe me when I say I had never heard of them until this case came up - if 400 of them are in Kent I suspect that it is a regional thing rather than a national one.

[proper postie]

s**t! I've just turned my house upside down looking for my contract,which it would seem I have flung out.I've kept the letter that came with it telling me it was my copy,bright spark that I am.

Been at rm for 3 years now,should I be worried about the next year?

[REDLETTER]

As Mail Centres close or move then it is not just the FTC people that are being affected.

We are a stones throw from a big Mail Centre. Every time one of our staff departs though what ever means, they are replaced by a Full Timer from there!

So no one will ever get "made-up" to Full Time in our DO, no matter what promises have been made to staff.

And those at the bottom are sinking deeper into the sh*t as these people are long service and get to take the plum jobs at the next re-sign (doesn't impress some of the older timers at the DO on slightly less service when the get booted off their "easier" walk!)

And I don't want to knock Mail Centre staff, but some aren't exactly "prepared" to do deliveries. How long can the "new to duty" excuse work

Watch out! It will be happening to you all very soon!

[charlie1]

My understanding is that it is jobs that are made redundant and not people. This talk of people switching between a closed mail centre to a delivery office could be a logistical and legal nightmare for Royal Mail, as any job made redundant should not be advertised or offered to another individual for a set time scale. Without checking I believe this is in the region of six months!

[DirtyHarry]

s**t! I've just turned my house upside down looking for my contract,which it would seem I have flung out.I've kept the letter that came with it telling me it was my copy,bright spark that I am.

Been at rm for 3 years now,should I be worried about the next year?

I've been with RM long enough to remember when I was proud, yes, PROUD, to be a postman, and loved the job, yes, LOVED, the job, and I'm worried about next week, let alone, next year.

[REDLETTER]

s**t! I've just turned my house upside down looking for my contract,which it would seem I have flung out.I've kept the letter that came with it telling me it was my copy,bright spark that I am.

Been at rm for 3 years now,should I be worried about the next year?

Just get the Christmas Pressure out the way and see how RM will thank you!