Cars on delivery / flyers / job and finish etc

[dvbuk55]

What isolated cases may exist where Royal Mail would retain private car use?

There may be a limited number of cases where it is suitable for an individual to retain their private car for use on delivery. DOMs may exceptionally need to address short term operational issues or ongoing health problems typically covered within DDA (for example, where the use of a personally adapted vehicle presents a more suitable option for the individual and supports inclusivity in the workplace). All cases will be assessed on an individual basis.

You see Andy, just like many who read the agreement, it is NOT what the intent was but what the interpretation of the wording is. The highlighted words make the case quite succinctly, what is a limited number?, retain their etc ...on delivery FULL STOP. What is a short term operational issue as needing to be addressed by the DOM?

You will notice that the DDA aspect is third on the list AND will be addressed on an individual basis - in other words there are NO set guidelines as to what is or is NOT a DDA issue.

So I don't really need to try again, a loophole is a loophole and I don't believe it was without thought more with considerable thought.

[not me]

An exceptional situation, is something which is an exception to the norm. For example: A van breaks down, and they can't get a replacement in time. It isn't an everyday situation.

Short term, means over a limited amount of time. Not a long term situation.

As exceptional circumstances are exactly that: The exception to the norm. And people with Disabilities will continue to have those problems long term. The primary use, must by definition, be to accomodate those Posties who have a disability.

It's elementary, my dear Watson. Err, I mean Fishtank.

Ok then Sherlock would you like to try and nail that down a bit for a stage 1 disagreement.

If someone comes in to do a spot of overtime to cover a duty and there isn't a van for them does my DOM say...
a) Just go home we have to fail the walk because we don't have a van.
b) This is an exceptional situation could you just use your car?

How long is short-term?, i say 1 day...my DOM says 1 month....who's right?
What do you go to disagreement with....a differing opinion of the definition of the words exceptional and short-term.

there is a van for every 2 duties
so you are paired up
if you are a driver then you drive the van
its park and loop so one of the 2 will be driving
if you can drive your car out then why not a van?
so what if you come in to cover a walk and dont have car and theres no van?
do you just go home?

[andy2007]

An exceptional situation, is something which is an exception to the norm. For example: A van breaks down, and they can't get a replacement in time. It isn't an everyday situation.

Short term, means over a limited amount of time. Not a long term situation.

As exceptional circumstances are exactly that: The exception to the norm. And people with Disabilities will continue to have those problems long term. The primary use, must by definition, be to accomodate those Posties who have a disability.

It's elementary, my dear Watson. Err, I mean Fishtank.

Ok then Sherlock would you like to try and nail that down a bit for a stage 1 disagreement.

If someone comes in to do a spot of overtime to cover a duty and there isn't a van for them does my DOM say...
a) Just go home we have to fail the walk because we don't have a van.
b) This is an exceptional situation could you just use your car?

How long is short-term?, i say 1 day...my DOM says 1 month....who's right?
What do you go to disagreement with....a differing opinion of the definition of the words exceptional and short-term.

If it only happened on rare occasions, then it's an exceptional circumstance. If it happens regularly, then the DOM is failing to provide the equipment to do the job, and therefore, can't rely on people using their cars.

Exceptional circumstances are exactly that: Out of the ordinary. As to what could be considered a short term situation. That's open to interpritation. However, if it happened over several months, or worse, over a year. Then it's blatently not a short term problem.

The only difficult bit, is deciding the threshold between short and long term. But there comes a point, where it becomes obvious, that it isn't short term. And that's where the DOMs are going to find themselves in breach of the agreement, if they try to abuse it.

[andy2007]

What isolated cases may exist where Royal Mail would retain private car use?

There may be a limited number of cases where it is suitable for an individual to retain their private car for use on delivery. DOMs may exceptionally need to address short term operational issues or ongoing health problems typically covered within DDA (for example, where the use of a personally adapted vehicle presents a more suitable option for the individual and supports inclusivity in the workplace). All cases will be assessed on an individual basis.

You see Andy, just like many who read the agreement, it is NOT what the intent was but what the interpretation of the wording is. The highlighted words make the case quite succinctly, what is a limited number?, retain their etc ...on delivery FULL STOP. What is a short term operational issue as needing to be addressed by the DOM?

You will notice that the DDA aspect is third on the list AND will be addressed on an individual basis - in other words there are NO set guidelines as to what is or is NOT a DDA issue.

So I don't really need to try again, a loophole is a loophole and I don't believe it was without thought more with considerable thought.

Yes, I did notice that the DDA bit is third on the list. But it's also the ONLY exception, which can be used as a long term solution. The other 2 are short term fixes only. As for the reasons that people with disabilities might need to use their own vehicle: Well the only one that I can think of, is if they're required to drive, and can't drive a normal Manual vehicle. As if it's neccessary for them to have a modified car, I doubt that they'd be able to do Deliveries anyway. Although I could be wrong.

So as I'm sure you can see from my 2 posts today. This can't be used to allow people to continue using their cars on Deliveries. Unless they're Disabled, and need a non-standard vehicle. Or for short term, unexpected circumstances. And there's no amount of spin, which will allow that to go on for very long. Without being in breach of the agreement.

So as I said befvore: I think you need to keep looking, if you want a loophole to allow people to keep using their cars long term.

[Phantom]

So Mr Blonde i will ask the question AGAIN! Do you take out all your mail with you?

[dvbuk55]

There may be a limited number of cases where it is suitable for an individual to retain their private car for use on delivery.

So as I said before: I think you need to keep looking, if you want a loophole to allow people to keep using their cars long term.

I am not entirely sure how many times we are going to revisit the same old same old BUT - if you could just point out exactly what time limitations there would be in the agreement in this FIRST sentence, who would decide it and how many cases would be considered limited and by whom?

You have a tendency to extrapolate what you consider is the meaning of the sentence in comparison as to what is actually written. As I said many times the words are the words and that is what the agreement will be judged on.

[clashcityrocker]

I had a document today and it stated that after the delivery methods revision there would be no private cars on delivery and the insurance bond would be withdrawn.
With no insurance bond how will there be any exceptions?

[not me]

probably pay their own business insurance

[Mr Blonde]

So Mr Blonde i will ask the question AGAIN! Do you take out all your mail with you?

Is your office in the centre of town and do you have far to travel to your first point of delivery?

[krussel]

probably pay their own business insurance

That will not cover the mail. Try phoning an insurance broker and get insurance for handling mail

[fishtank]

I had a document today and it stated that after the delivery methods revision there would be no private cars on delivery and the insurance bond would be withdrawn.
With no insurance bond how will there be any exceptions?

It's a good question CCR and nobody seems to be able to answer it.
This agreement is full of contradictions....it's as if it was written by two groups of people and then cobbled together at the last minute.

[dvbuk55]

I had a document today and it stated that after the delivery methods revision there would be no private cars on delivery and the insurance bond would be withdrawn.
With no insurance bond how will there be any exceptions?

It's a good question CCR and nobody seems to be able to answer it.
This agreement is full of contradictions....it's as if it was written by two groups of people and then cobbled together at the last minute.

What we had at this so called negotiation was two opposing parties each with a wish list, both prepared to compromise, both prepared to have mediation - one side using cleverly worded rhetoric, the other side too stupid to understand the meaning of the wording.

As for the insurance bond......................................a question I have asked many times, but I can say our manager is of the opinion that cars will still be in use after the revisions - so who is paying?

Odd how you never get a definitive statement from the usual oracles when there is a conundrum to be answered - maybe it is because they haven't really got a clue,
perhaps it is still under discussion or being revisited as the new speak goes.

[krussel]

Its going to be yet another grey area within an agreement, as if we have not had enough of them.

My Dom is adamant that cars will not be used following park and loop. He feels that it presents a non professional image with posties dragging mail from the boot of their car.

I must admit I tend to agree.

[dvbuk55]

Its going to be yet another grey area within an agreement, as if we have not had enough of them.

My Dom is adamant that cars will not be used following park and loop. He feels that it presents a non professional image with posties dragging mail from the boot of their car.

I must admit I tend to agree.

And so do I BUT that doesn't deter from the fact that this agreement guideline ALLOWS the use of private cars on delivery, albeit in a "limited" sense and that will be abused by both sides, of that I have no doubt.

The CDV is a prime example, there is a staff shortage, the CDV has to leave with only 1 occupant leaving a 2nd delivery to be delivered without transport - this already happens NOW and I see no reason to suspect that it will not continue.

[Phantom]

So Mr Blonde i will ask the question AGAIN! Do you take out all your mail with you?

Is your office in the centre of town and do you have far to travel to your first point of delivery?

i am six miles away from my office, i take my first bag with me and thats it!

i have mail delays nearly every day and all this is knocked off delivery time