D2D - The real postcode lottery

[jessthecat]

What isn't fair, is someone on a 20 hour contract, getting paid £10 doing the d2d's, covering a 40 hour duty, when if the full timer was on it, then they'd get £20.60!!

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Current rate for D2Ds is £0.00 so how is he getting £10 for doing them.

If he is getting £10 under the DS then his contract must be roughly 20 hours.

If it is then all he should be doing is bag carrying and delivering.

He shouldn't have to do IPS, Packet Sorting and Prepping lapsed rounds which FTimers have to do. FTimers get paid more DS because their contracted hours are greater, it has nothing to do with D2Ds.

[jessthecat]

'She', is on a 20 hour contract, gettind £10 ds.
'She', is covering a 40 hour duty, doing 5, 8 hour days.
'She', gets £10 for her ds, but if 'he', the duty holder wasn't on holiday, then 'he' would be getting £20.60, for doing the same work. Fair??

[dvbuk55]

Well it doesn't really matter what it is called, 90% of delivery staff see it as D2D money, because that is it's origin - no matter how much spin is put on it for all old timers it will be D2D money ad infinitum.

[cheesetoastie]

Its easy to say theres gonna be winners and losers, but is that really an acceptable position... the fact is, the fulltimers in delivery offices up and down the country have not enough indoor work .. FACT!.. most of the mail when i come arrive in the morning is either in bundles in the ips and in walksorted trays! there is not enough manual sorting work there to justify 30-40 fulltimers sitting delivery a few boxes of letters, i no this is not something that full-timers want to hear but its fact.,
its got that silly. that u have a whack of fulltimers- double prepping some 20 hour contracts walk, where they barely no the frame ( who wud b better at throwin in the walk?,) .....in my office, when i arrive at 8:30... the full-timers are throwing in there last few letters or news bag.. and then preparing to tie up, most are tied up by 9am! . despatch time is 10:15... take away there 40 min break. thats leaves 35 mins of time to do nout! and the majority just end up leaving the office at 10am anyway..... to address this the royal mail/cwu added the d2d to fill the gap... which is a total stupid idea... for 2 reasons.....

1. fulltimers usually have 100% prepped monday morning due to no indoor work anyway,( seen nightshifters doin by sat morning! for the next week)
2. yeah some fulltimers wil have to make up 16% a day...BUT SO WILL THE PART-TIMER

u aint acutally adding much indoor work to the fulltimers day, the whole point, but ur adding to the part-timers day aswell, when they are already struggling for time.. thus going over ( costing the business money)...

the cwu dont hide the fact that there tryin to protect FULLTIME jobs... but there doing at the detriment of the business and there part-time memebers,,,,,.....

[not me]

I suggest you do as i do
1st thing i do is make up my daily % of D2D's and put them in the frame
doesnt matter how long that takes as they are going in
if that takes so much time that i will struggle for doing the mail then so be it
i will stream/cut as required to complete on my time

the word i tell the guys at work is......RELAX
you work to your time
they can(and do) ask me to lapse and i do
however they know i wont be working over,so theres no point pressuring me to take more than i can do

the other day the manager was trying to get me to go out and do lapsing and then come back to finish getting my mail ready
I still had condemns and redi's to do and told him so
yet some still rushed out to do this and got back into their break time
they still dont get it

[cheesetoastie]

i agree... i take my time.. i do the job as properly as it can.. i dont leave the office intill all things are done and my frame is nice and tidy... if that takes me past my despatch time, then i simply stream a row to make up the 10-15 mins lost ... the issue i have is not with doing the job properly.. its just a basic fairness and equality that i think all workers should be treated with..... its this .. im on 40 hours gov, im alrite attitiude!... i look around and see the 50 year old man, house paid off, no kids..... doing there 40 hours , workin there day off .. and doin a fri night nightshift..money,money,money.. .....then i see the man in his early 20s on 20 hours,,, 2 kids.. in a council house, never gets offered his dayoff to work.. not a hope of gettin a friday nightshift..... if ur a union member as i am.. no matter of hours.. u cant say this is just! ... WHO CAN LIVE ON 20 HOURS PAY? so that some senior fulltimer can keep his cushy 40 hours...... there should be ONE grade.... 35 hours!... like the union wanted.. a 35 hour week..... not just for the fulltimers .. but for every1.... its a great idea....AFTER ALL.. THERES WINNERS AND LOSERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[not me]

i agree... i take my time.. i do the job as properly as it can.. i dont leave the office intill all things are done and my frame is nice and tidy... if that takes me past my despatch time, then i simply stream a row to make up the 10-15 mins lost ... the issue i have is not with doing the job properly.. its just a basic fairness and equality that i think all workers should be treated with..... its this .. im on 40 hours gov, im alrite attitiude!... i look around and see the 50 year old man, house paid off, no kids..... doing there 40 hours , workin there day off .. and doin a fri night nightshift..money,money,money.. .....then i see the man in his early 20s on 20 hours,,, 2 kids.. in a council house, never gets offered his dayoff to work.. not a hope of gettin a friday nightshift..... if ur a union member as i am.. no matter of hours.. u cant say this is just! ... WHO CAN LIVE ON 20 HOURS PAY? so that some senior fulltimer can keep his cushy 40 hours...... there should be ONE grade.... 35 hours!... like the union wanted.. a 35 hour week..... not just for the fulltimers .. but for every1.... its a great idea....AFTER ALL.. THERES WINNERS AND LOSERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i agree,so why was there a yes vote and so many who didnt vote?
anyway,the delivery supp should have been broken down over the 40 hour week and applied hourly up to 40 hours
so if a PTer did 40 hours they got the same wage as a FTer

[london sub]

Delivery supplement should of been done more equally across the board. None of this pro rata nonsense.

The DS should of been given to those that are on walking delivery, not handing it out to indoor staff??? Thats why its called a DELIVERY supplement to deliver items of mail, but none of the indoor staff do this so why take the privilege of having the supplement in the first place.

Yes i still think its unfair that a p/t delivers 4 d2d one week and a f/t delivers none. More work for the p/t in my eyes, and does not reap the benefits because of this. Its fair to say that not only the f/t staff but also the p/t staff have been stitched up and theirs nothing we can do about it. The union thought it was the best deal of the 21st century, i thought differently and voted no!

[dvbuk55]

Delivery supplement should of been done more equally across the board. None of this pro rata nonsense.

The DS should of been given to those that are on walking delivery, not handing it out to indoor staff??? Thats why its called a DELIVERY supplement to deliver items of mail, but none of the indoor staff do this so why take the privilege of having the supplement in the first place.

Yes i still think its unfair that a p/t delivers 4 d2d one week and a f/t delivers none. More work for the p/t in my eyes, and does not reap the benefits because of this. Its fair to say that not only the f/t staff but also the p/t staff have been stitched up and theirs nothing we can do about it. The union thought it was the best deal of the 21st century, i thought differently and voted no!

Well that's a statement that belies the saving full time jobs myth! There's a full timer doing none of the additional work and a part timer doing the work supposed to protect full time jobs - soooooooo how many extra hours has been added to the part timers contract................ well I would guess NONE - it was all smoke and mirrors to get a vote.

[pickaname]

How is D2D into workload going to protect jobs when no one knows exactly how many jobs are going to be lost?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

How is D2D into workload going to protect jobs when no one knows exactly how many jobs are going to be lost?

Thats the pickle in it - I don't think it will protect FT jobs in off itself, but what it does is add more traffic and therefore more hours into the Work Plan. I suppose CWU translated the more hours into protecting FT jobs, but I personally think that the link is tenuous as management could in the right situation employ less FTs and more PTs to make up the hours.

This of course relates to the 75/25% ratio on which the matter of if this is a local or national target has never been answered to my satisfaction. If its national then I can see a Manager using the extra hours for more PT positions rather than FT ones.

[TeeferTiger]

And all this pro rata cr*p is why I'm getting out.

It should be based on the hours you work (with a set maximum) rather than your contract.

As I've said before (probably many times), RM want to employ p/t staff to flex up and so they don't have to pay them as much money when they're off work as they would a f/t. And yet, even though the p/t can be working shoulder to shoulder with a f/t, doing the same work, same hours, same workload, they get half the allowances and bonuses, all because they've been deprived of a f/t contract and flex up to help the business out.

As I've also said before (although I think only once!), it's a shame the p/t time can't afford to go on an overtime ban (and the f/t staff for that matter) to show rm that it's a crock o'poo and grossly unfair.

But still, I suppose I should feel "lucky I've got a job" and "stop moaning about it". I hope I have an exit interview when I leave. God help them!

[dvbuk55]

How is D2D into workload going to protect jobs when no one knows exactly how many jobs are going to be lost?

Thats the pickle in it - I don't think it will protect FT jobs in off itself, but what it does is add more traffic and therefore more hours into the Work Plan. I suppose CWU translated the more hours into protecting FT jobs, but I personally think that the link is tenuous as management could in the right situation employ less FTs and more PTs to make up the hours.

This of course relates to the 75/25% ratio on which the matter of if this is a local or national target has never been answered to my satisfaction. If its national then I can see a Manager using the extra hours for more PT positions rather than FT ones.

Well the question was answered by dingo some time ago TBT - it IS a national figure and the reason is that many many many areas are already well below the 75/25 split, some as low as 50/50. Ours happens to be 60/40 and that figure is not going to change - why ? - because there is insufficient workload to justify it UNLESS you increase the outdoor workload, and let the Part Timers go and who would want that?

I asked once who was going to monitor the figure overall and did not receive a reply, at least a reply that was acceptable.

[dvbuk55]

And all this pro rata cr*p is why I'm getting out.

It should be based on the hours you work (with a set maximum) rather than your contract.

As I've said before (probably many times), RM want to employ p/t staff to flex up and so they don't have to pay them as much money when they're off work as they would a f/t. And yet, even though the p/t can be working shoulder to shoulder with a f/t, doing the same work, same hours, same workload, they get half the allowances and bonuses, all because they've been deprived of a f/t contract and flex up to help the business out.

As I've also said before (although I think only once!), it's a shame the p/t time can't afford to go on an overtime ban (and the f/t staff for that matter) to show rm that it's a crock o'poo and grossly unfair.

But still, I suppose I should feel "lucky I've got a job" and "stop moaning about it". I hope I have an exit interview when I leave. God help them!

You're right to feel bitter April but Royal Mail is using the cheapest option to run the business and is allowed to get away with it. The union crack on that they are protecting full time jobs but have allowed buy down and the recruitment for part time staff to soar in the last five years - Nero, Rome and Fiddle springs to mind.