Are we now fighting the CWU as well as RM?

[clashcityrocker]

Members leaving the CWU does not in itself cause members to leave the CWU
Failure to engage,listen to,protect and communicate with members causes members to leave the CWU,

No I think "peer pressure" has a part to play as well as a failure to engage etc.
Billy was at our AGM and a handful of people turned up. Surely if the issues were so serious some people could have got off their arses and come to question him.
Far easier to cancel your subs and pretend you are doing something useful.

[fishtank]

Members leaving the CWU does not in itself cause members to leave the CWU
Failure to engage,listen to,protect and communicate with members causes members to leave the CWU,

No I think "peer pressure" has a part to play as well as a failure to engage etc.
Billy was at our AGM and a handful of people turned up. Surely if the issues were so serious some people could have got off their arses and come to question him.
Far easier to cancel your subs and pretend you are doing something useful.

I personally have never known anyone to cancel their subs because their mate did CCR.
If you mean people discuss the issues and can be swayed either way then that is healthy debate not "peer pressure".

[clashcityrocker]

I personally have never known anyone to cancel their subs because their mate did CCR.
If you mean people discuss the issues and can be swayed either way then that is healthy debate not "peer pressure".

Healthy debate means being in possession of all the facts.
Judging from some of the posts on here that isn't always the case.
There are for example obvious benefits to putting D2D into workload. There are also consequences to that.
For how much longer will we have to read on here that "pro rata is unfair because part timers deliver the same number of D2D"?
So "I'm leaving the CWU because the part timers have been shafted" isn't healthy debate.

[motherhubbard]

HOWL

Is that the cry of the she wolf guarding the trade union movement?

No. It is the noise of someone howling at the moon because they have nothing useful left to add,

[fishtank]

For how much longer will we have to read on here that "pro rata is unfair because part timers deliver the same number of D2D"?
So "I'm leaving the CWU because the part timers have been shafted" isn't healthy debate.

You will hear that until members see real benefits from D2D into workload in their D.O.
You can only debate with the facts that you have to hand.
Have you seen these real benefits from D2D into workload yet CCR?
And i don't mean your DOM is only lapsing 4 shifts this week instead of the proposed 5 even though it was only 2 this time last year.
Or are you like a lot of people on here simply repeating what Bob said at the meetings....or simply repeating dingo's posts.

[dvbuk55]

HOWL

Is that the cry of the she wolf guarding the trade union movement?

No. It is the noise of someone howling at the moon because they have nothing useful left to add,

Oh I wouldn't say you have nothing left to add mo, pretty limited but not nothing.

[BELIAL]

What is it going to achieve? - apart from giving you a sense of moral superiority

Why must everything come with an achievement?
Can't you do something because you feel it is right?
I just don't understand some peoples craving for an end result.

This one I don't get.
Every action has an effect\result\achievement whatever the motivation behind it.
So far the end result of our recent union action\inaction is for me ,a wage cut and a shrinking pension. Personally speaking I'm quite keen about working to achieve a better end result but, if you think letting our present leadership have even more freedom to negotiate away your terms is a good idea ,then I can't understand why you are so vocal in your criticism.

[clashcityrocker]

Or are you like a lot of people on here simply repeating what Bob said at the meetings....or simply repeating dingo's posts.

Bloody hell I think I can do better than recycle dingo's posts.
For the record - a lot of people in my DO are benefitting from the D2D into workload because:
a) it takes approx 15hrs/day out of the capacity plan. That has 2 benefits.
b) like a lot on here the volume of D2D has fallen, but they are still recieving the delivery supplement.

[fishtank]

What is it going to achieve? - apart from giving you a sense of moral superiority

Why must everything come with an achievement?
Can't you do something because you feel it is right?
I just don't understand some peoples craving for an end result.

This one I don't get.
Every action has an effect\result\achievement whatever the motivation behind it.
So far the end result of our recent union action\inaction is for me ,a wage cut and a shrinking pension. Personally speaking I'm quite keen about working to achieve a better end result but, if you think letting our present leadership have even more freedom to negotiate away your terms is a good idea ,then I can't understand why you are so vocal in your criticism.

Belial motherhubbards point to dvb was what do you hope to achieve?
My point was that not every action is done with an achievement in mind.
I left the Labour party not to achieve anything,simply because i thought it was the right thing to do.

[pickaname]

What is it going to achieve? - apart from giving you a sense of moral superiority

Why must everything come with an achievement?
Can't you do something because you feel it is right?
I just don't understand some peoples craving for an end result.

This one I don't get.
Every action has an effect\result\achievement whatever the motivation behind it.
So far the end result of our recent union action\inaction is for me ,a wage cut and a shrinking pension. Personally speaking I'm quite keen about working to achieve a better end result but, if you think letting our present leadership have even more freedom to negotiate away your terms is a good idea ,then I can't understand why you are so vocal in your criticism.

Exactly.

We were all expecting the CWU to at least protect our existing terms.

Sure D2D into workload and 6 items would be fine IF we got fair rewards for the effort.

Now Bob Gibson seems to think the system is fair. How is this?

He says the all cash from d2d is still used to pay the supplement but its not a d2d supplement. Go figure!

So in effect, Bobs twisted logic means I and thousands of others are supplementing the income of people that may have less work on their hands.

Why issue a pay cut to some and a pay rise to others even though some are doing more work.

The old system was fair as you get paid for what you do. D2D 'supplemented' your income.

If this is not the case then why the hell do we recieve £20.60p a week at all?

Basically Royal Mail told CWU it was all going to happen anyway with or without them and the union shat themselves. Either this or they were bribed with a cash bung.

If not then make the minutes of the negotiations public so we can see for ourselves ecactly what went on and exactly what was said.

[fishtank]

Or are you like a lot of people on here simply repeating what Bob said at the meetings....or simply repeating dingo's posts.

Bloody hell I think I can do better than recycle dingo's posts.

I know you can CCR it was tongue in cheek.

For the record - a lot of people in my DO are benefitting from the D2D into workload
That has 2 benefits.

What has it really meant to the members CCR,i doubt they are really that interested in the capacity plan and the quiet D2D weeks are quickly forgotten....2 weeks of 3 and it's "we always get 3" again.
Less lapsing?

[motherhubbard]

Why issue a pay cut to some and a pay rise to others even though some are doing more work.

So what you actually want is a payment per item you deliver, so that a postman who delivers 150kg of mail should recieve twice as much as a postie who delivers 75kg, even if they both work 40hrs/week?

If this is not the case then why the hell do we recieve £20.60p a week at all?

Why indeed. The logic is if D2D goes into workload you lose the payment but the CWU negotiated the payment as well. Well done CWU.

Basically Royal Mail told CWU it was all going to happen anyway with or without them and the union shat themselves. Either this or they were bribed with a cash bung.

Are you still there fishtank. This is the problem with the anti-agreement brigade. They climb in to bed with people who talk shite like this.

[fishtank]

Mother, i'm not about to jump into bed with anyone literally or otherwise.
I can fight my own battles,i'm a big boy now.

[clashcityrocker]

Mother, i'm not about to jump into bed with anyone literally or otherwise.
I can fight my own battles,i'm a big boy now.

But they climb into bed with you. (Not literally)

[clashcityrocker]

What has it really meant to the members CCR,i doubt they are really that interested in the capacity plan

They need to be interested in the capacity plan.
Without understanding the capacity plan you can't have that healthy debate.
Now let's watch the footie.