Are we now fighting the CWU as well as RM?

[Martin Walsh]

Lets have a look at the comments and responses from my post.

First off dvbuk your continued claims that the streets of London are paved with gold are laughable. Yes we have less part time jobs then in some places because of a number of factors, we kept streaming of the mail under two deliveries when many places went to 95% of the mail on the GP.

Secondly the job market in London has meant over the years part time delivery jobs often have an high turnover. Oh and of course we have protected ourselves and not allowed management to walk all over us and then simply blame everyone including Headquaters for something we were not prepared to fight for.

Now lets get things straight if everyone around the UK was working to their time 1. is we would not have absorbtion as their would be no spare capiticity and 2. part timers would not be working extra hours above their contracted hours.

We know this is not the case. Instead people moan about cdvs as it will restirct their ablility to finish early.

Now if you are finishing right on your time , good then thats great and means that it will be harder to reduce your hours.

Now judgee , I live in the real world of Royal Mail where I have to deal with people being dismissed for unfair things , I have to negotiate to get your better attendances , I have to ensure that the agreement is introduced fairly and in line with the agreement.

I meet different members every week in different offices and I listen to their concerns and attempt to assist them. But I have to say I dont often meet people who dont recognise that the jobs has changed and that Royal Mail want you to work harder faster and smarter.

Now Judgee if you have a revison and you dont get an opportunity to get less Saturdays off then you should moan out loud to your rep and Branch as this is the one part of the agreement that regional managers are certainly supporting and I have dealt with the regional managers in two regions.

[dvbuk55]

First off dvbuk your continued claims that the streets of London are paved with gold are laughable.

What is laughable Dingo is your continued defence of an agreement which is unfair and so cannot be applied fairly and your insistence that the London delivery offices work to the same standards as other offices.

I won't name names but there is evidence of second jobs, short deliveries, paired deliveries and any number of "little perks" not widely advertised to all and sundry.

You were the ones doing the whining for a national ballot when you thought you may have to conform to the previous 2007 agreement and your local strike action produced nothing - oh sorry - you almost had them to the table...........................................

[POSTMAN]

Bar D2D's which yes is a sham,what part of the agreement is 'unfair'?

[dvbuk55]

Bar D2D's which yes is a sham,what part of the agreement is 'unfair'?

The part of the agreement which discriminates against part timers, which in the round is most of it - but no worries for the smoke you only have 5%, so insignificant they can be ignored, and have been. Unfortunately for the rest of the country the figure is more like 35% and the 75/25 split.................laughable.

[POSTMAN]

Bar D2D's which yes is a sham,what part of the agreement is 'unfair'?

The part of the agreement which discriminates against part timers, which in the round is most of it - but no worries for the smoke you only have 5%, so insignificant they can be ignored, and have been. Unfortunately for the rest of the country the figure is more like 35% and the 75/25 split.................laughable.

And what is unfair for the part timers?
If the office and the rep does not use the agreement for the part timers,then who's fault is it?

Oh btw anyone watching in,our part timers have every sat off,as it's easier to manage and it gives them a carrot.

Also if anyone on here wants to work a RM/CWU agreement to their benefit without being pissed on,then give any London branch a bell.

[fishtank]

Also if anyone on here wants to work a RM/CWU agreement to their benefit without being pissed on,then give any London branch a bell.

That's fine POSTMAN but you really need to have the 20,000 95% full-time 99% unionised in a confined geographical area with recruitment difficulties and HQ on your doorstep that goes with it.
Strength is not always in the strong,sometimes circumstances lend a hand.

[Judgee]

I recognise that the job has changed, but the basics are still the same, pick up letters, sort letters into order, bag up and deliver.

The CWU has put us in this position because they have been forever on a back foot and on defense. Instead of going to management and telling them working conditions, wages etc need to be improved they sat back and waited. They waited till the management wanted to change things with slash and burn policies and were therefore always trying to accept the least worst offer on the table.

They could have gone to the management years ago and said "oi dumfecks what the hell ya doing with the pension pot. Get back to paying into the pension fund or there will be a black hole draining the RM forever more" they still could insist the management is held to account for thier negligent if not criminal activity.

They had the backing of the members behind them and could have turned the business around through positive change. I'm not just talking about recent strikes I'm talking a decade ago. Other unions pushed for better deals long before bosses demanded cuts and were therefore always in a stronger position because they made management step back and realise they could not just treat their workforce like cattle. Thier members wanted more so offering less would be a risky business.

RM could have been saved, with the service to the public maintained to a high standard. Had they the vision to expand rather than cut. The CWU should have and could have pushed them into this but they did not.

The success of the RM does not solely rest on slash and burn. It is the unions job to make this clear to management and offer them alternatives, to which I can think of many and I am only a dumb postman!

[dvbuk55]

Oh btw anyone watching in,our part timers have every sat off,as it's easier to manage and it gives them a carrot.

Is that because the full timers are in on their 2.45 deliveries for 10 hrs SA?

As for giving London a bell - ask not for whom the bell tolls............................ you were pretty handy at giving the rest of us a bell when you needed a national ballot.

[POSTMAN]

Oh btw anyone watching in,our part timers have every sat off,as it's easier to manage and it gives them a carrot.

Is that because the full timers are in on their 2.45 deliveries for 10 hrs SA?

As for giving London a bell - ask not for whom the bell tolls............................ you were pretty handy at giving the rest of us a bell when you needed a national ballot.

Funny as f**k,if we did have what you think we have,i guess it's because we've got......................you know the rest.

[dvbuk55]

Oh btw anyone watching in,our part timers have every sat off,as it's easier to manage and it gives them a carrot.

Is that because the full timers are in on their 2.45 deliveries for 10 hrs SA?

As for giving London a bell - ask not for whom the bell tolls............................ you were pretty handy at giving the rest of us a bell when you needed a national ballot.

Funny as f**k,if we did have what you think we have,i guess it's because we've got......................you know the rest.

I certainly do - 95% full timers, 99% union members, recruiting problems and HQ on your doorstep - you lads wouldn't survive anywhere else.

[POSTMAN]

Also if anyone on here wants to work a RM/CWU agreement to their benefit without being pissed on,then give any London branch a bell.

That's fine POSTMAN but you really need to have the 20,000 95% full-time 99% unionised in a confined geographical area with recruitment difficulties and HQ on your doorstep that goes with it.
Strength is not always in the strong,sometimes circumstances lend a hand.

Yes because HQ negotiated what is going on in my office!
And where did you get '99% unionised' from,i've never heard of that.

While a lot of you seem to leaning towards your local management's mantra that it's rosy down here,there are many other offices around the country that have not rolled over!

Forget the beef with London,sort your own backyard out 1st.

The agreement is here,it's not going to go away,use it to your advantage like many offices around the country will,just like P&M.

[dvbuk55]

Also if anyone on here wants to work a RM/CWU agreement to their benefit without being pissed on,then give any London branch a bell.

That's fine POSTMAN but you really need to have the 20,000 95% full-time 99% unionised in a confined geographical area with recruitment difficulties and HQ on your doorstep that goes with it.
Strength is not always in the strong,sometimes circumstances lend a hand.

Yes because HQ negotiated what is going on in my office!
And where did you get '99% unionised' from,i've never heard of that.

While a lot of you seem to leaning towards your local management's mantra that it's rosy down here,there are many other offices around the country that have not rolled over!

Forget the beef with London,sort your own backyard out 1st.

The agreement is here,it's not going to go away,use it to your advantage like many offices around the country will,just like P&M.

Just like P&M? London didn't have P&M, when they were asked to institute their side of the bargain, out came the dummy hence the 20 day strikes. Most of what has been agreed AGAIN was agreed previously in 2007 except in the new agreement we are worse off. "Winners and losers" Pmn? The strong shall inherit and the weak can go feck themselves .................yes just the sort of thing for the new millennium and the new agreement and it's not hard to see where the input for the agreement came from.

[pickaname]

I recognise that the job has changed, but the basics are still the same, pick up letters, sort letters into order, bag up and deliver.

The CWU has put us in this position because they have been forever on a back foot and on defense. Instead of going to management and telling them working conditions, wages etc need to be improved they sat back and waited. They waited till the management wanted to change things with slash and burn policies and were therefore always trying to accept the least worst offer on the table.

They could have gone to the management years ago and said "oi dumfecks what the hell ya doing with the pension pot. Get back to paying into the pension fund or there will be a black hole draining the RM forever more" they still could insist the management is held to account for thier negligent if not criminal activity.

They had the backing of the members behind them and could have turned the business around through positive change. I'm not just talking about recent strikes I'm talking a decade ago. Other unions pushed for better deals long before bosses demanded cuts and were therefore always in a stronger position because they made management step back and realise they could not just treat their workforce like cattle. Thier members wanted more so offering less would be a risky business.

RM could have been saved, with the service to the public maintained to a high standard. Had they the vision to expand rather than cut. The CWU should have and could have pushed them into this but they did not.

The success of the RM does not solely rest on slash and burn. It is the unions job to make this clear to management and offer them alternatives, to which I can think of many and I am only a dumb postman!

[POSTMAN]

The strikes were because they came to London and ripped up agreements.But you know that.
P&M is here and has always been here.What makes you think it isn't/hasn't?

Lets move on from the streets of gold,there's an agreement to be used to all our advantage.Get stuck in.

[fishtank]

While a lot of you seem to leaning towards your local management's mantra that it's rosy down here,there are many other offices around the country that have not rolled over!
.

First of all i didn't say all was rosy in London and i certainly don't lean to any management mantra.
My point was that "strength" can sometimes be aided by circumstances outside anybodys control.
London has such a high full-time ratio mainly because it is difficult to recruit and retain part-time staff and with a high full-time ratio comes statistically higher union membership.Geographically you are compact and that allows for easier organisation and having HQ on your doorstep means communication will be faster and more regular.
These are all circumstances which are outwith your control and nothing to do with growing a pair OR everything being rosy.

Your second point about offices around the country not having rolled over is true,i know i'm in one but it's not a flag i need to wave continually in order to try and defend a poor and ambiguos deal that's primary function was to keep HQs gravy train rolling for another few years....this is not aimed at you in particular POSTMAN.