Are we now fighting the CWU as well as RM?

[robd]

i have recently left the union after much soul-searching,plenty have already decided enough is enough in our D/O,locally the branch is completely disorganised,and the message from the rep. is simply work to your time,the manager has the area-rep seemingly in his pocket,the most startling aspect is postmen with 20years service have finally called time on the union.
Whilst i respect Dingo,and am grateful for his advice and personal assistance,a word of warning to his statistics,most people in our D/O have left without notifying the CWU,but have rang wages to stop the subscribtion,once this filters through,the figures will be very different.
The fact that 20 year men,who have always believed it better to be part of a union,have decided to leave,speaks volumes.

[motherhubbard]

Yes it means they have forgotten the lessons of history.

[dvbuk55]

Yes it means they have forgotten the lessons of history.

The situation the members of the CWU find themselves in owes nothing to history, more to poor organisation, poor representation, poor leadership and mismanaged funds.

[motherhubbard]

To me it is simple.
You either stand on the side of the progressive section of society represented by the Trade Union movement (and I understand some people have their gripes with the CWU) or you join forces with the regressive section of society.
If you ain't with us you are against us.
I really cannot abide reading the pathetic self-indulgent whinging of the "I have left the CWU" brigade.Never mind the sacrifices of thousands of heroic men and women through the ages that have given you the opportunity to be such self-indulgent w*****s.
The trade union movement isn't about Billy Hayes or Dave Ward. Get over the crappy cult of personality you seem so obsessed by. The trade union movement is about ordinary men and women. If you ain't in it then what happens to the movement. It stops.
Now if you believe society would be better off without trade unions then, as I said before, I don't think you have learnt the lessons of history.I think you are misguided. I think you are wrong.
I wouldn't care if they put Ant and Dec in charge of the CWU. I would still be a member because that is the trade union that represents me in my workplace. My workplace would be a worse place without it.

[fishtank]

I don't think members have an issue with the Trade Union Movement mh.
The question people are asking is does the CWU represent their idea of a Trade Union?
It's a valid question and asking it doesn't make them whingers or w*nkers.
That is their right as much as it is your right to defend the union to the hilt despite it's obvious failings.

[hummingbird's_wings]

To me it is simple.
You either stand on the side of the progressive section of society represented by the Trade Union movement (and I understand some people have their gripes with the CWU) or you join forces with the regressive section of society.
If you ain't with us you are against us.
I really cannot abide reading the pathetic self-indulgent whinging of the "I have left the CWU" brigade.Never mind the sacrifices of thousands of heroic men and women through the ages that have given you the opportunity to be such self-indulgent w*****s.
The trade union movement isn't about Billy Hayes or Dave Ward. Get over the crappy cult of personality you seem so obsessed by. The trade union movement is about ordinary men and women. If you ain't in it then what happens to the movement. It stops.
Now if you believe society would be better off without trade unions then, as I said before, I don't think you have learnt the lessons of history.I think you are misguided. I think you are wrong.
I wouldn't care if they put Ant and Dec in charge of the CWU. I would still be a member because that is the trade union that represents me in my workplace. My workplace would be a worse place without it.

going backwards in terms of pay and conditions hardly seems to me to be progressive .
as for "if you ain't with us you are against us" , who exactly are "us" , seeing as RM and the CWU seem to be singing from the same hymn sheet that argument hardly seems applicable .
i couldn't give a monkey's who's in charge of the union as long as they properly represent their membership . your idea of putting Ant and Dec in charge , although tongue in cheek , begs the question - would they have done as badly ?

[dvbuk55]

Motherhubbard seems to belong to the "it doesn't matter how crap it is, it'll do for me Brigade", an obvious apologist for probably the poorest performance of any union in the "history" of trade unions.

I don't fall for the heroics of the past garbage - those men were fighting for progression, equal pay and rights - now tell me that this union has done the same in recent years.

The trade union movement has a proud history and I had been a member of it for almost forty years but when the representation, respect and trust has gone, just like a supermarket I don't use it, it's my money and I spend it wisely.

The current path of the CWU is misguided plain and simple.

The strength of the unions is all but gone and it's time the "we are the union brigade" woke up and smelled the coffee and realised you don't have to belong to a union as 50% of the working population don't. If representation is merely parroting the company line then why pay the middle man?

[bunkerland]

your idea of putting Ant and Dec in charge , although tongue in cheek , begs the question - would they have done as badly ?

Can't see much point in replacing one overpaid comedy double act with another! What about getting Cannon and Ball instead,they'd be cheaper and you wouldn't have the comedy! It's a win win situation!

[stokes11eg]

Yip--how many union leaders of the twenties and thirties got vast wages, mortgages, and freebies! I too used to be a proud union member, but this union, does not represent the rank and file!

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Yip--how many union leaders of the twenties and thirties got vast wages, mortgages, and freebies! I too used to be a proud union member, but this union, does not represent the rank and file!

I actually think at the moment there are 2 Unions in Royal Mail both called the CWU.

1. You have the ranks and file version which seems willing to hold RM to account when it is needed, and that shows solidarity when needed. In this I include the Unit Reps and the Area Reps of which I have had dealings. This level of the Union does indeed do their best to represent the rank and file.

2. Then there is the Political and Organisational side of the CWU, and this side of the Union has IMHO, done it best to protect is viability and existence going forward from the recent agreement. In the short term it is impossible to say if closer ties with the employer will improve the lot of the average postal worker in future years. However, despite protestations to the difference I don't think that the recent agreement was good for individual workers, but only time will tell if the Union as an organisation will benefit, and that this improve the long term future of those left in the business in 3 years time.

I do feel sorry for any reps in the divide between Area/Unit Reps and HQ, as they are caught between the 2 sides and it is impossible to keep 2 masters happy. However, I hope that when they make the decisions and recommendations that affect 1,000s of members and non members alike, that they vote with their conscience and not on the basis of loyalty to any organisation, after all they are in their position not for Royal Mail or even the CWUs benefit, but for their own members.

However, one fundamental thing that I think the CWU have got wrong is that they seem to be willing to sacrifice almost anything on the altar of Full Time employment (39/40 hours) but at some point the benefit of protecting this will be outweighed by the drawbacks and "No delivery span as an enabler" seems a big step in that direction for me an ordinary delivery worker.

[stokes11eg]

As you say, it's impossible to keep two Masters happy. when the chips were down, they should have come down firmly on OUR side, go back a few months when we were prepared to fight, they deserted us. O'K most of us realised we may not have won the fight, or got the terms we wanted, but we would have FOUGHT!
And that's maybe what's wrong with this leadership. they do not have the fighting spirit any more.

[motherhubbard]

I don't think members have an issue with the Trade Union Movement mh.
But then we don't really know what the motivation is behind the thread. Is their really a serious anti-union movement in their office? There isn't one in my office. Is there one in yours?
The question people are asking is does the CWU represent their idea of a Trade Union?
How does a Trade Union behave in the face of falling revenue streams and the introduction of new machinery? Do we throw our clogs at the new machines? Did that work?
It's a valid question and asking it doesn't make them whingers or w*nkers.
Is it a valid question? Apart from some whose agenda is unknown, who else is asking the question? Are other Trade unions criticising the CWU? And that is a genuine question.
How does leaving the CWU advance the cause of working people?It doesn't. It is self-indulgent.
Here are some other union leader's salaries.
Bob Crow (RMT) - £79,564 in salary, £26,115 in pension contributions, £13,013 expenses
John Hannett (USDAW) - £81,742 salary, £16,389 pension contributions
Billy Hayes (CWU) - £83,530 salary, £14,190 pension contributions
Sally Hunt (UCU) - £63,743 salary, £7,612 pension contributions, £2705 car benefit (start of June 2006 to end of May 2007)
Paul Kenny (GMB) - £81,000 salary, £21,000 superannuation (pension contributions), £8,000 car
Dave Prentis (Unison) - £92,187 salary, £23,603 pension contributions, £11,646 expenses and car benefit
Derek Simpson (Unite-Amicus) - £62,673 salary, £16,156 pension contributions, £13,333 car allowance, £26,181 housing benefit
Mark Serwotka (PCS) - £82,094 salary, £26,104 pensions contributions, £2,245 additional housing cost allowance and additional housing cost supplement
Steve Sinnott (NUT) - £99,846 salary, £23,963 pension contributions
Tony Woodley (Unite-TGWU) - £59,333 salary, £9,552 pension contributions, car fuel £3,360
Matt Wrack (FBU) - £66,389 salary, £44,281 pension contributions, £5,134 car

[mailmonkey]

I've just left the union, feel a bit sick really. Been a member of CWU ever since I joined RM, was a member of NATFHE for 6 years before then, strongly believe in "the trade union movement"...

BUT, the CWU have totally gone against the whole ethos of the trade union movement. It's not been an easy decision, the whole farce of the agreement began it, and the final nail in the coffin for me was our manager announcing there's no more "them and us", management would be working alongside the CWU from now on...for me, a union SHOULD be about "them and us"..

If the CWU ever decide they are prepared to take their balls in their hand, fight our corner, use IA as a tool etc etc, I'll happily rejoin.

Am considering, along with a couple of other colleagues, looking at joining another union.

[postghost]

The one thing I have came to realise is that people do not understand the word:

UNION!!!

Definition: An organization of workers joined to protect their common interests and improve their working conditions.

Here is where I stand.

f**k Billy & Dave. They are clearly not up to the job.

Now I hear all the same people whine bitch and moan about the union not doing this or not doing that.
To these people I say Grow a pair!!
There is no point in looking to the upper level ranks of the union for support. They are weak.

This union must develop strength from the roots upwards.
Start voicing your opinion more frequently to those that do not do the job properly (although do so in a respectful manner)
If you see a colleague in conflict with a manager offer support. Start doing a little bit of homework about your actual rights within the CWU and encourage others to do the same.

Insist on regular union meetings and in seeing all LTB's. Get a committee formed and meet with management to raise, discuss and resolve issues.

Time for people to step up and take control.

Remember..............WE ARE UNION.
Not Billy. Not Dave. Not the area reps that stick their head in the sand.
THEY WORK FOR US!!!! MAKE SURE THEY ARE STARTING FROM NOW!!!!


CWU................DOWN BUT NOT OUT!!!!!!


STAND STRONG BUT STAND TOGETHER!!!
ALWAYS SHOW UNITY AND RESPECT FOR YOUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS!!!!

[britwrit]

A few thoughts...

1. For years and years, the CWU leadership has been able to call out the troops during strikes without having to tend to the grassroots (i.e. constantly recruiting in local offices, having reps who inform people in each office what's going on and fighting their side.) Those days are over.

2. I believe in trade unions. That doesn't mean I'm happy with the fact that the reps in my office appear to be invisible. You can be a Communist and hate Joe Stalin.

3. Still, those salaries don't seem to be excessive. More like what a GP or lawyer make a few years out of school.