Are we now fighting the CWU as well as RM?

[POSTMAN]

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 9&p=287410" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Martin Walsh]

Donut and pickaname you have clearly got an agenda that you hope people follow your lead and leave the union in droves.

Well that is yet to happen. They are not my figures they are the unions figures.

The union of course wants to recuirt more members and they are appoxmately 25 thousand non members in the the whole of Royal Mail including CIT , Quadrant , Romec , Counters etc.

How do we know that ? Well when the pension trustees ballots go out we have the exact figure of people in the pension scheme and the union can cross reference that with those we have as members. Obviously there are some members or indeed non members who are not in the pension scheme so that 25 thousand non members could be higher.

Now in terms of lack of information in regards to the delivery aspect , well no one can argue that there is not enough detail on the delivery issues.

In fact the common quote is that we are drowning in guidelines and we need some kind of presentation on how to join all the guidelines and revisons tools up , including the standards.

In fact on deliveries we now have :

Local revision guidelines and workshops
Guidelines on delivery methods
Menu of options
Revison process ( 6 step process )
WSM operator guidelines
Door to Door guidelines
Revison procedures guidelines

We are close to agreeing the standards including indoor workload tool , Geo route 2008 , delivery span indicator.

Royal Mail have also indicated what they see the upper decile looking like in terms of the issues covers including accidents , customer compliants , productivity , sick absence.


If you believe that you are better outside the union then that is your right , we are a voluntary organisation after all. But I do believe you are clearly wrong in attempting to advise others to leave as the union is the only voice in the workplace that Royal Mail listens to and have a right to negoiate on employees behalf.

[jack straw]

This could be seen as controversial but I have detected a definite shift away from the CWU both on here and in my office.

Im seeing much more anti union language and behaviour in both cases.

Since the 2010 & Beyond agreement Ive seen many people from my office leave the union and those that remain taking less interest in CWU affairs, in fact some people who are still in the CWU are tripping over themselves to undermine union activities linked with the latest agreement.

Its my view that we as a workforce are now fighting 2 fronts.

That of attacks from Royal Mail and attacks from the CWU.

Music to RM ears whether the union were right or wrong this talk only strenghens RM hand.
The union isn't perfect and I have critised quite a bit but if you believe things will be better without the or a union you are seriously misguided.

Oh yeah, we need their help in negotiating a pay cut and more work don't we? Royal Mail can do that for themselves.
Get rid of these two fools running the Union and you may get people returning. They've lost all credibility.

[smarterdarter]

"the only voice in the workplace Royal Mail listens to"

[Judgee]

I left as a protest. If CWU want membership to rise they need to get rid of pinky and perky running the show.

Dingo and many others are right to say its better to have a union than no union at all. But right now that is a fine line and it shouldn't be, it should be an obvious choice but it isn't. Need to put someone in charge that has ALL its members interests at heart not just some!

Sure go on and on about how the deal was voted in so many wanted it. But the members were voting on a mismashed deal that affected them all in different ways. The deal was based on some people gaining some people losing. Had there been a seperate vote for delivery staff I am sure the result would have been a resounding NO!

Those members have been sacrificed and it's not on

[guvenor]

Donut and pickaname you have clearly got an agenda that you hope people follow your lead and leave the union in droves.

Well that is yet to happen. They are not my figures they are the unions figures.

The union of course wants to recuirt more members and they are appoxmately 25 thousand non members in the the whole of Royal Mail including CIT , Quadrant , Romec , Counters etc.

How do we know that ? Well when the pension trustees ballots go out we have the exact figure of people in the pension scheme and the union can cross reference that with those we have as members. Obviously there are some members or indeed non members who are not in the pension scheme so that 25 thousand non members could be higher.

Now in terms of lack of information in regards to the delivery aspect , well no one can argue that there is not enough detail on the delivery issues.
yes there are guidelines and agreements but do cwu at national level ensure they are fairly applied
no time given to us on d2d in our office all on forced ot
do cwu care not a toss
In fact the common quote is that we are drowning in guidelines and we need some kind of presentation on how to join all the guidelines and revisons tools up , including the standards.

In fact on deliveries we now have :

Local revision guidelines and workshops
Guidelines on delivery methods
Menu of options
Revison process ( 6 step process )
WSM operator guidelines
Door to Door guidelines
Revison procedures guidelines

We are close to agreeing the standards including indoor workload tool , Geo route 2008 , delivery span indicator.

Royal Mail have also indicated what they see the upper decile looking like in terms of the issues covers including accidents , customer compliants , productivity , sick absence.


If you believe that you are better outside the union then that is your right , we are a voluntary organisation after all. But I do believe you are clearly wrong in attempting to advise others to leave as the union is the only voice in the workplace that Royal Mail listens to and have a right to negoiate on employees behalf.

[growler]

Absolutley right, same feeling in my office as well.
In fact, my rep was recently summoned to a area meeting of reps which he thought would be disscussing the 2010 agreement....but infact the main agenda of the meeting was a recruitment drive for the CWU as he was told people are leaving in their droves as postmen/women are starting to see this so called agreement for what it actully is !
Don`t listen to dingo and his figures on people that are leaving because they are fake, they are not an independant audit of leavers.
Our ability to strike has been removed for 3 yrs ...so save yourself some cash and cancel your subs.

Who audit's the figures you base your post on

the unions finished just another stick to whip you with royal mails secret weapon

[growler]

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 9&p=287410" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

hand in hand with the enemy... that is quite obvious... this is the end just get out if you dont like it or shut up and put up

[hummingbird's_wings]

I left as a protest. If CWU want membership to rise they need to get rid of pinky and perky running the show.

Dingo and many others are right to say its better to have a union than no union at all. But right now that is a fine line and it shouldn't be, it should be an obvious choice but it isn't. Need to put someone in charge that has ALL its members interests at heart not just some!

Sure go on and on about how the deal was voted in so many wanted it. But the members were voting on a mismashed deal that affected them all in different ways. The deal was based on some people gaining some people losing. Had there been a seperate vote for delivery staff I am sure the result would have been a resounding NO!

Those members have been sacrificed and it's not on

couldn't agree more

i also left the union as a protest , i would prefer to be in rather than out , but the way we were misrepresented meant that this was the only way i could see of clawing back a little money and of registering my displeasure .

[andy2007]

I left as a protest. If CWU want membership to rise they need to get rid of pinky and perky running the show.

Dingo and many others are right to say its better to have a union than no union at all. But right now that is a fine line and it shouldn't be, it should be an obvious choice but it isn't. Need to put someone in charge that has ALL its members interests at heart not just some!

Sure go on and on about how the deal was voted in so many wanted it. But the members were voting on a mismashed deal that affected them all in different ways. The deal was based on some people gaining some people losing. Had there been a seperate vote for delivery staff I am sure the result would have been a resounding NO!

Those members have been sacrificed and it's not on

couldn't agree more

i also left the union as a protest , i would prefer to be in rather than out , but the way we were misrepresented meant that this was the only way i could see of clawing back a little money and of registering my displeasure .

Who would we replace "pinky and perky" with?
They keep their positions by default, because no-one's prepared to stand against them. And that's the problem. Quite apart from making it impossible to replace them, if there's no-one else willing to take on the job. If there was competition for their jobs, it would focus their minds on representing us better, don't you think?

I can understand why you felt strongly enough about HQ to leave in protest. But what about your local/area Reps?
Don't they deserve your support?
Or are you from one of the areas, where you don't have good local/area Reps?
If you are, then why not stand for positions yourselves, so that you can do something about it?
I know it sounds like a stock response. But the fact is, that even if you don't feel able to take on the position yourself, you still need to find someone else who will. Or you'll never get rid of a bad Rep.

[pickaname]

Donut and pickaname you have clearly got an agenda that you hope people follow your lead and leave the union in droves.

Well that is yet to happen. They are not my figures they are the unions figures.

The union of course wants to recuirt more members and they are appoxmately 25 thousand non members in the the whole of Royal Mail including CIT , Quadrant , Romec , Counters etc.

How do we know that ? Well when the pension trustees ballots go out we have the exact figure of people in the pension scheme and the union can cross reference that with those we have as members. Obviously there are some members or indeed non members who are not in the pension scheme so that 25 thousand non members could be higher.

Now in terms of lack of information in regards to the delivery aspect , well no one can argue that there is not enough detail on the delivery issues.

In fact the common quote is that we are drowning in guidelines and we need some kind of presentation on how to join all the guidelines and revisons tools up , including the standards.

In fact on deliveries we now have :

Local revision guidelines and workshops
Guidelines on delivery methods
Menu of options
Revison process ( 6 step process )
WSM operator guidelines
Door to Door guidelines
Revison procedures guidelines

We are close to agreeing the standards including indoor workload tool , Geo route 2008 , delivery span indicator.

Royal Mail have also indicated what they see the upper decile looking like in terms of the issues covers including accidents , customer compliants , productivity , sick absence.


If you believe that you are better outside the union then that is your right , we are a voluntary organisation after all. But I do believe you are clearly wrong in attempting to advise others to leave as the union is the only voice in the workplace that Royal Mail listens to and have a right to negoiate on employees behalf.

I dont loads in my office to convince people to vote against the CWU on the latest agreement.

I initiated a poster campaign telling staff about the paycut and why we shouldnt trust RM based on past experience with them breaking agreements.
I also pointed out that as the CWU are now part funded by RM, we cant trust them either.
So if anyone tells me that i havent been active in trying to change things in my office they can quite frankly do one.

[andy2007]

Well Pickaname, I don't agree with what you're doing (trying to convince others to leave the CWU). But you definately have the courage of your convictions, and I respect that.

Have you considered re-joining, and going for a Rep's position instead?
The way I see it. The only realistic chance for us to get real change in the CWU, is for people who're willing to put in the time and effort, like you did. So that we can change from within. Personally, I'm lucky enough to have excellent local and area reps. But even with them. If enough people aren't motivated to turn up at meetings, and excercise their right to vote. Then nothing will change, and we'll keep getting shafted by RM.

[mailman71]

what i cannot understand is people who dislike the action's of the union but decide to leave whereby they dont have the vote to try and change things.
i did'nt agree with the last deal but we live in a democracy so more people voted for the dead than against so we get on with it,as for leaving the union you must be joking i have had to many battles with management to think i could beat them on my own.

[dvbuk55]

what i cannot understand is people who dislike the action's of the union but decide to leave whereby they dont have the vote to try and change things.
i did'nt agree with the last deal but we live in a democracy so more people voted for the dead than against so we get on with it,as for leaving the union you must be joking i have had to many battles with management to think i could beat them on my own.

You got that right.

[countyboy]

"The union of course wants to recuirt more members and they are appoxmately 25 thousand non members in the the whole of Royal Mail including CIT , Quadrant , Romec , Counters etc."


Having been with RM six months I have yet to have any contact with the union. I dont even know if the union know I exist and maybe the onus is on me to seek out the rep although this has not been the case in other industries I have worked in. It just strikes me if new starters are not contacted by the union how serious are they about recruiting new members ?