wsm allowances

[Martin Walsh]

An LTB has gone out today expalining that a number of issues relating to pay both interperations and related to pay roll need to be sorted and were discussed at the National Deployment meeting yesterday.

As a result there will be a pay sumit meeting on Monday. Some of the issues relate to WSM operators, people who purchase annunal leave in delivery units, those indivduals who have been made up to 40 hours but due to an embago on issueing the 40 hour contract until the revison are now recieving pro rata payments.

It is not true that all delivery postman/women are losing. If everyone was losing £40 as being claimed then the supplement would be more than £20.60.

The average door to door payment was just over £12. There was a lot more people under that payment then was over it. Equally not everyone recieved either ES1& 2 payments.

Now the supplement is paid to all in the office including indoor staff, reserves and RDCs and drivers and equally when your on sick leave or annual leave. It is not dependent on contracts either.

You are entitled to your opinion on whether you believe the deal is crap , but solely basing it on door to door ingnoring all the other factors including protection of full time jobs is not living in the real world.

Believe me once the one pass is introduced fully in all mail centres and you have walk sequencing fully in place including the changes to the workplan then you will realise what the union has achieved in protecting full time jobs is pretty significant.

Hardly any walk sequencing revison introduced as yet has the workplan right but that is what the majority of mail centre revisons will introduce.

By the way I did not say that all delivery members were not trade unionists , I said those who argue that WSM operators should not get the £20.60 supplement are not trade unionists.

The fact is most if not all the WSM operators will be volunters from the delivery office and would have possibly done both door to door and have ES1 &2 and should therefore in line with the agreement be recieving the supplement.

[AnotherLimey]

The fact is most if not all the WSM operators will be volunters from the delivery office and would have possibly done both door to door and have ES1 &2 and should therefore in line with the agreement be recieving the supplement.

Ok Dingo but let me get this straight as i could be wrong.

A WSM operator gets £21 pound something or other, a delivery man gets £20.60, the union are saying if the WSM operator is in a delivery office he or she should also get the delivery suplement as tagged to a delivery office briging thier total suplement to over £40 pounds?

So as someone that delivered DTD at 3 contracts a week around £25 and ESA of £12+ now gets the £20.60 suplemant a loss as you can see, I'm now losing alot of money while others are gaining, should i get a WSM suplemaent as people work a machine in my office, I'll be honest i don't touch the machine but hey they get it so why should i not get it?

It's your reason Dingo not mine, so hand over the WSM suplement

[Stormproof]

Believe me once the one pass is introduced fully in all mail centres and you have walk sequencing fully in place including the changes to the workplan then you will realise what the union has achieved in protecting full time jobs is pretty significant.

Big deal! Still singing from the HQ hymn sheet Dingo, you can give it a rest now you've got most of us a pay cut.

[Martin Walsh]

Stormproof last year Royal Mail wanted to introduce the Dutch delivery model which would have meant you did not lose some money from door to door but you went part time and lost up to half your wages.

Every European country who has walk sequencing have the vast majority of the work force on part time contracts as they only do one wave on sequencing. So all the mail arrives after 10 in the morning.

The union not only got two waves (60% from 0600 but 40% after 0700 up to 10 00 )

But they also got an agreement that 75% of the workforce would remain full time.

Now yes that meant we had to put d2d into workload. However introducing more measured work is far better than cutting more staff to part time. is it not ?

[mucker]

Oh i read the argeement thats for sure, what i did not read that delivery workers would take a big pay cut and everyone else in royal mail would take a 20 quid pay rise of thier backs, put yourself in my shoes for a minute or two, it sucks

you need to point the finger at the top table,for the shite deal they negotiated with royal fail.and the muppets who voted yes

I'm not pointing my finger at you Mucker, just pointing out it's wrong, i'm sure you see that.

i didnt say you were pointing the finger at me,it is bang out of order,but as we should recive it that's the way it is. as i mentioned in my previous post.........

Out of interest what job do you do and suplemant to you get Mucker?

mail center driver,i dont recive a supplement..

Then you have a case, if you do not get driving allowance thats quite plainly wrong, however if you get a suplement for driving why should you get a delivery suplement, see my point here?

i agree with you.however wether i agree or disagree it means jack Shite,as per the aggrement the payment should be payed simple...

Well it does mean "jack s**t" as you say, because if you agree with me as you say i and others are being done over to make your pay higher, thanks for your support

why dont you PM the great and almighty Dingo,he seems to bang out the HQ stance on this issue.and dont forget he lives in the real world(or so he tells us)

[Martin Walsh]

mucker I dont bang out the CWU Headquaters stance just my opinion. I have had plenty of arguements with CWU HQs on issues where I think they have been wrong and attempted to change their views via conference motions etc.

However when I think they are right then I will support them as well.

In terms of this agreement what do you believe the options really were ?

Last year a lot of offices had the choice to join the strikes in June over 400 offices did but a lot ducked the fight.

The local strikes eventually ensured a nationally ballot we delivered a Yes vote and we had two strike days and whilst support was good in some areas it was not in others and was not as good as in 2007.

Equally some offices had already been out loads of days including parts of Scotland , Bristol , Plymouth, London and network.

The policy on no savings was also broken in a lot of areas. That policy was always about getting an national agreement which protected our future.

Well the 2010 transformation national agreement does that to varying degrees. It does put in a process which means that full time jobs will be protected, improvements in MTSF , a consultation process for mail centres clousres and full involvement of the cwu in delivery revisons.

The main gripe on here is that some have lost on door to door , which is understandable but the fact is that Royal Mail was never going to keep turning d2d contracts away and the union was never going to ensure full time jobs being protected by ingnoring the postive impact that d2d would have in offices in workload.

In any case we know that d2d will be automated in any case within the next 2 years.

So it might be easy for you to make cheap comments towards me but it does not make you right.

[AnotherLimey]

The main gripe on here is that some have lost on door to door , which is understandable but the fact is that Royal Mail was never going to keep turning d2d contracts away and the union was never going to ensure full time jobs being protected by ingnoring the postive impact that d2d would have in offices in workload.

Look Dingo i have accepted losing DTD money taking a drop of around £15 a week, i did not like it but can live with it to protect jobs for the good of all, what has got my goat is that it now turns out others that don't deliver the stuff are gonna get a £20.60 pay rise off my and my fellow delivery members back, surley even you can see that is wrong?

[dvbuk55]

You're allowed 1 toilet break.


If you put your hand up.

Where exactly

[fishtank]

The main gripe on here is that some have lost on door to door , which is understandable but the fact is that Royal Mail was never going to keep turning d2d contracts away and the union was never going to ensure full time jobs being protected by ingnoring the postive impact that d2d would have in offices in workload.

In any case we know that d2d will be automated in any case within the next 2 years.

There you go with that false argument again dingo.
How can we "protect full-time jobs"in delivery with a product that will be automated within the next 2 years.
If Royal Mail wanted to grow the D2D market so badly why did we give away our unit payment and cap so cheaply that many members ended up with a pay cut?

[Martin Walsh]

Fishtank your right that door to door is going to be automated but you will still get credit in workload . However where you are missing the point is the real growth in the unaddressed market is specific day items and eventually that will grow the market along with other fulfillment stuff.

[naughton]

when will a decision be made regarding d2d payment and wsm workers .-cheers

[Martin Walsh]

There is a pay summit tomorrow with the national deployment group including roger Poole and acas. Hopefully will hear something Tuesday .

[naughton]

thankyou

[Big Daz]

The main gripe on here is that some have lost on door to door , which is understandable but the fact is that Royal Mail was never going to keep turning d2d contracts away and the union was never going to ensure full time jobs being protected by ingnoring the postive impact that d2d would have in offices in workload.

Look Dingo i have accepted losing DTD money taking a drop of around £15 a week, i did not like it but can live with it to protect jobs for the good of all, what has got my goat is that it now turns out others that don't deliver the stuff are gonna get a £20.60 pay rise off my and my fellow delivery members back, surley even you can see that is wrong?

In my D.O only the two RLE staff and the two Pouches/oversized packets duties will gain 20.60. Everyone else is a delivery duty holder or reserve.

If they work all paid work hours then they should get the same wages, but that should not have been done on the rob peter to pay paul set up.

[stodgy88]

any news from meeting on monday?