PEC etc - are you still hopefull for our new realationship?

[dvbuk55]

Who has a better idea, someone who does work or someone who just talks about it now there's a quandry

[Martin Walsh]

Who has a better idea, someone who does work or someone who just talks about it now there's a quandry

Someone who does one walk or someone who knows geo route, the indoor workload tool , the capicity planner, the delivery span indicator , CDVs , knowledge of attendance patterns , experience at saying no and getting a good deal. Or you dvbuk who talk a good fight but moan about all the terms and conditons in your office which tells me you talk a good fight and then surrender.

[axeman]

terms and conditions your hero's hayes and ward obtained under the auspices of one a.leightons ideals .'bullshit' .......'''''anyone can talk''''' but it's wether they have the gumption to get things moving they're way or at least have the advantage ....but hayes ,ward put paid to that with the farce of deal that is p&m 2010


surrender wasn't that hayes and ward answer to royal fails 'team' at the p£m 'talks'

[fishtank]

Who has a better idea, someone who does work or someone who just talks about it now there's a quandry

Someone who does one walk or someone who knows geo route, the indoor workload tool , the capicity planner, the delivery span indicator , CDVs , knowledge of attendance patterns , experience at saying no and getting a good deal. Or you dvbuk who talk a good fight but moan about all the terms and conditons in your office which tells me you talk a good fight and then surrender.

I don't think we need to be lectured about talking a good fight then caveing in dingo....let's not go there for the sake of a peaceful night.
My original post did not concern the individual who does one walk as he decides little in this union.
My point is simple....anyone who thinks that replacing indoor work with outdoor is a no-brainer is completely out of touch with the physical realities of this job.
You can know geo-route,the indoor workload tool ,the capicity planner, the delivery span indicator , CDVs , knowledge of attendance patterns but if you cannot understand the basic principle that the members are already at their physical limits then as dvb says you are just talking the talk.

[dvbuk55]

Who has a better idea, someone who does work or someone who just talks about it now there's a quandry

Someone who does one walk or someone who knows geo route, the indoor workload tool , the capicity planner, the delivery span indicator , CDVs , knowledge of attendance patterns , experience at saying no and getting a good deal. Or you dvbuk who talk a good fight but moan about all the terms and conditons in your office which tells me you talk a good fight and then surrender.

You're the one who talks a good fight dingo, you and the rest of the CWU Muppets, capitulate at the the first hurdle on IA, let the pension deficit ride and ride, let RM ride rough shod over it's staff and make deals that only benefits the CWU and NOT the membership - you keep singing the same old song, I know this and that, I meet people in the know, I hold meetings with ordinary people, I once posted a letter BUT you don't actually do anything but chatter and make excuses for what is a shambles of a union - and to what purpose? - personal ambition?

Here is a question that you should, according to you, be able to answer - what is a fair and manageable workload or what proportion of indoor work do you think can feasibly be translated into outdoor work?

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk I took 20 days strike action last year , so much for falling at the first hurdle. Plus we have managed to get a lot of good things back including 4 day weeks.

Tell me what have you achieved in your office. What benefits have you acheived.

I dont just a good fight , I lead one.

[POSTMAN]

8hr day(minus the 1hr reduction over the week)there will be less and less indoor work for all of us soon,if no one wants to go over 3:30 outside,what other options can you come up with.
Genuine question.

CDV's will reduce the weight we carry so in affect doing longer outside wont be so back breaking.

[Lincox]

Dingo, could you please answer the question regarding converting reducing indoor work to outdoor work. No matter what modernisation implements are introduced the facts are that outdoor work will be far more physical than indoor work, and as proved by a Royal Marine it is not physically sane to expect anyone to increase their level of outdoor work on a regular basis without causing lasting physical harm. Whilst the CWU have tried to hold on to full time contracts, this will be of no benefit to anyone if they go to an early grave. It is the responsibility of the union to negotiate terms and conditions that take into account everything including the welfare of the members and not agree to punishing schedules for the sake of full time contracts.

[POSTMAN]

With regards to a new relationship,some will get it some wont,a lot of it depends on the,dare i say it,the dangly bits between your legs.

[dvbuk55]

Dvbuk I took 20 days strike action last year , so much for falling at the first hurdle. Plus we have managed to get a lot of good things back including 4 day weeks.

Tell me what have you achieved in your office. What benefits have you acheived.

I dont just a good fight , I lead one.

What a load of cods wallop - you harp on as though the world would stop if dingo wasn't spouting rubbish - it won't. London went on strike for twenty days and the end result was zilch - so some leadership there then. Now on the national strike and you seem to think you are a spokesperson for the CWU - they caved in after two days for an interim agreement that meant nothing, as a prelude to, and I quote you here, "the deal of the century"

Answer the question oh wise one - what is a fair and manageable workload and what amount of indoor work can feasibly be translated to outdoor work - you don't know because you don't work and haven't done for years. The reason why we know how a delivery office works is because we WORK in one.

[fishtank]

8hr day(minus the 1hr reduction over the week)there will be less and less indoor work for all of us soon,if no one wants to go over 3:30 outside,what other options can you come up with.
Genuine question.

CDV's will reduce the weight we carry so in affect doing longer outside wont be so back breaking.

I think,and i have given this a lot of thought so don't jump down my throat but we may have gone down a blind alley trying to protect the full-time/part-time ratio.
The job is evolving POSTMAN and it's evolving in such a way that the work pattern now suits a higher P/T ratio.
I understand why the union wishes to protect F/T i just think that sadly it's like trying to uninvent the WS machines....not going to happen.
I think it may have been better in the long run to protect the T&Cs of those full and part-timers left than try to oppose an unstoppable force.
If we are sold to a private invester they will reach straight for the Dutch part-time model anyway.

[dvbuk55]

Dingo, could you please answer the question regarding converting reducing indoor work to outdoor work. No matter what modernisation implements are introduced the facts are that outdoor work will be far more physical than indoor work, and as proved by a Royal Marine it is not physically sane to expect anyone to increase their level of outdoor work on a regular basis without causing lasting physical harm. Whilst the CWU have tried to hold on to full time contracts, this will be of no benefit to anyone if they go to an early grave. It is the responsibility of the union to negotiate terms and conditions that take into account everything including the welfare of the members and not agree to punishing schedules for the sake of full time contracts.

You have hit the nail on the head Lincox, chasing full time jobs is exactly what the CWU are doing and the only way they see as progressing is by extending delivery times. That is clearly NOT a long term solution. You cannot keep adding on to outdoor work, which is more and more physically challenging, ad infinitum. Now we are going to hear the shorter working week that has been "negotiated" but NOT clearly defined and which may be as far as three years away for some. In the meantime the CDVs are parked in a field, the revisions haven't started because the workshops have barely begun and the D2Ds are increasing.

The CWU was given the opportunity to think ahead, plan ahead and decided to take the path of least resistance and go along with Royal Mail regardless of the impact on its membership.

[dvbuk55]

With regards to a new relationship,some will get it some wont,a lot of it depends on the,dare i say it,the dangly bits between your legs.

And what it should depend on is being represented by a strong union and not one that subscribes to "winners and losers".

[Lincox]

Exactly my thoughts Fish. If indoor work becomes little more than an hour or two, not the fittest of people can do 6 or 7 hours outdoor work year in year out, unless they attach a power pack to your back and a pair of skates on your feet. Time the union got sensible about this. Perhaps full time indoor work including more night shifts, and all part time delivery people would be more realistic and bring back earlier posting for customers and allow the part timers the time to do jobs elsewhere if they needed to increase their incomes.

[POSTMAN]

I agree fish and dv,the only way to not kill ourselves outside is to lump up the indoor work inside by having more part timers.
If RM said to me you've got 2 bods leaving soon you can have a like for like but you will have to work harder outside,or you can have 2 part timers and absorb their indoor work i know which one i would pick.
BUT,i would NEVER agree for my f/t guys to being forced to go p/t.