D2D Update 4th June

[woofwoof]

check mate union lost

[dvbuk55]

check mate union lost

Well isn't that surprising

[Big Daz]

In my D.O we can tell if there is time by the sheer amount of duty time left once prep is all done if absorption can be done and that will vary between duties.

If members were to wait in my D.O untill 4 hours before shift end that would mean standing around with nothing to do, IPS will be done, prep will be done callers office is covered by RLE duties. The DOM would love that a office full of OPGs standing around with nothing to do, just perfect for improving the case for savings.

Reality is the lunchtime van from the MC that collects mail brings IPS mail for the following day so if work all hours were to be implemented by my DOM it would have to be stay on and do IPS after delivery has finished. There is not enough work pre delivery to keep us going untill 4 hours before duty finish time.

you could clean the toilets

That would put the cleaner out of a job.

[woofwoof]

In my D.O we can tell if there is time by the sheer amount of duty time left once prep is all done if absorption can be done and that will vary between duties.

If members were to wait in my D.O untill 4 hours before shift end that would mean standing around with nothing to do, IPS will be done, prep will be done callers office is covered by RLE duties. The DOM would love that a office full of OPGs standing around with nothing to do, just perfect for improving the case for savings.

Reality is the lunchtime van from the MC that collects mail brings IPS mail for the following day so if work all hours were to be implemented by my DOM it would have to be stay on and do IPS after delivery has finished. There is not enough work pre delivery to keep us going untill 4 hours before duty finish time.

you could clean the toilets

That would put the cleaner out of a job.

not if we get the contract for road sweepers on the way back to the office

[LJR]

In my D.O we can tell if there is time by the sheer amount of duty time left once prep is all done if absorption can be done and that will vary between duties.

If members were to wait in my D.O untill 4 hours before shift end that would mean standing around with nothing to do, IPS will be done, prep will be done callers office is covered by RLE duties. The DOM would love that a office full of OPGs standing around with nothing to do, just perfect for improving the case for savings.

Reality is the lunchtime van from the MC that collects mail brings IPS mail for the following day so if work all hours were to be implemented by my DOM it would have to be stay on and do IPS after delivery has finished. There is not enough work pre delivery to keep us going untill 4 hours before duty finish time.

So in your DOs walks you know how many people are in or not and can factor packets, specials, recorded`s, traffic on roads, and customers talking and asking questions and decide you have enough time to lapse before you go out? Then you should lapse your jobs far to easy.

As an IR REP its your job to ensure your members dont go out till the correct time because they are costing jobs.
If your members have nothing to do then that is a management problem not you or your members you are not a policeman against members and or an extension of management.

You can try to excuse the way you allow your DO to work all you like but the guidelines from HQ are VERY CLEAR and they are there to protect both our jobs and health and safety, if you allow management to break those guidelines you are failing your members and yourself as an IR REP. Members will always cut corners if they can because they dont see the big picture it is your job to inform and condemn when they harm themselves and others by their actions. When it comes down to the nitty gritty of jobs and O/T you would be suprised how quick they start doing their job properly and how much time that takes to do.

[Big Daz]

No corners being cut prior to delivery, simply a lack of indoor workload combined with longs and shorts means long days are too long for the actual workload, but mbrs are getting done on the short days so there is no operational case for making the shorteer days a wee bit longer.

A simple look at the clock once prep is over and done with establishes if there is time.

Weve been absorbing since April 2009 and its rare but not unheard of for mbrs to be unable to do their absortion,

Im a bit puzzled by some of comments, how is H and S put at risk if mbrs go out on delivery more than 4 hours before duty finish time, surley the MR issue is the only H and S issue?

I am not aware of any guidelines or agreements that say OPG's can not leave for Delivery more than 4 hours before duty finish time. Please please do point me in the direction of them so i can get displayed, my mbrs in my D.O will go

A real life example of spare time at my D.O , a member comes in 20 mins early and dosent take MR before del, his hours of attendance are 6am to 3pm which is a 9 hour day. He starts off witk walksorted mail untill 6.10am , he does IPS untill the IPS is complete, its then back to prep. He signs out and goes home for the day at 12pm a whopping 3 hours early. Now 1 hour of that canbe attributed to early start and no MR, but that still leaves 2 hours to explain.

Is it private car on del? Nope that dosent happen at my D.O

The mbr has cycled to and from delivery and performed delivery with bike.

He will have had 3 to 4 pouches so lets assume some were overweight, now lets work out how many extra trips to drop box if pouches were correct weight based on my solid experince of the delivery in question and having plotted drop boxes for the pegasus made delivery routes and performed the job of dropping off pouches to drop boxes I can say with 100% accuracy no more than 2 extra trips taking a combined total of 15 mins. So that still leaves 1hr 45 mins and to make matters worse abosorption was done that day as well. So how do we explain away the remaing 1hr 45 mins J and F

[gb93]

He may be just very efficient BD, you can't penalise people for efficient don't you know

[LJR]

BD With all this time being made in your office it sounds in major need of a revision, so if in an office of say 100 if you get them to cut say 10% of your members jobs that will sort the lack of indoor and outdoor workload. They wont have time to bag up before their indoor time because they will be throwing in part time walks as well as their own so will leave more to do on the IPS for those left on there to sort and certanly wont have time to lapse because of the extra APs they will get from the revision and cuts in jobs. You will be like a normal office then and i am sure the members that lose their jobs will thank all concerned. Very soon we will be allowed to negotiate extra long walks of five hours or more and it would seem some offices are ready for them without negotiations as when an officer has finished their duty RM have the perfect right to send them out with as much work as they can to fill those hours left as per 2007 P&M this of course is far more difficult if they leave at the correct time but as you say its not written as such it relies on a bit of common sence and a membership to follow nationally agreed outdoor spans and to not compromise them, still as i said soon we can have walks as big as we want and i for one cant wait to spend 6 hours walking the streets in the sun, rain, ice and snow.

[Big Daz]

Common sense

Serious lack of that despite all the CWU literature on doing the job properley thats been pumped out over the last few years.

My members beive J and F is a sacred Cow that most not be slaughtered, they belive they have a god given right to J and F , they belive the CWU and its local rep should protect J and F.

On top of all that they belive they have a god given right to come in early and have their walksorted mail waiting for them, when it isnt then they get most annoyed if not angry, they belive the CWU should ensure that walksorted mail is available in full so they can have it all sorted into prep frame by 0610 when IPS is due to commence.

They belive they have a god given right which the CWU must protect to finish early every single day no ifs no buts!!!

The whole idea of working all paid work hours does not meet with approval from a lot of my mbrs.

Recently a mbr has moaned to the DOM he cant get a delivery he does on a semi regular basis (A rural that he is fully trained and experienced on but ceased to hold when we moved to fixed duties from 2 week rotate done) by a certain time of day, the DOM pointed out to him that his finish time is somewhat later than the time of day the mbr wants to be done for. It appears when he is on his urban delivery which he holds and used to hold in conjunction with the afore mentioned rural duty on the 2 week rotate system he can get done nice and early but not so early on the rural but still well within duty time!!!

[gb93]

Totally agree with the some members 'think they have a God given right' to finish early bit.

It does make a reps job really difficult when members can't grasp the idea of working all their paid hours.

We all like to get a flyer now & again but as long as the workload is reasonable and manageable if it takes us to our time most days what's wrong with that.

[dvbuk55]

Common sense

Serious lack of that despite all the CWU literature on doing the job properley thats been pumped out over the last few years.

My members beive J and F is a sacred Cow that most not be slaughtered, they belive they have a god given right to J and F , they belive the CWU and its local rep should protect J and F.

On top of all that they belive they have a god given right to come in early and have their walksorted mail waiting for them, when it isnt then they get most annoyed if not angry, they belive the CWU should ensure that walksorted mail is available in full so they can have it all sorted into prep frame by 0610 when IPS is due to commence.

They belive they have a god given right which the CWU must protect to finish early every single day no ifs no buts!!!

The whole idea of working all paid work hours does not meet with approval from a lot of my mbrs.

Recently a mbr has moaned to the DOM he cant get a delivery he does on a semi regular basis (A rural that he is fully trained and experienced on but ceased to hold when we moved to fixed duties from 2 week rotate done) by a certain time of day, the DOM pointed out to him that his finish time is somewhat later than the time of day the mbr wants to be done for. It appears when he is on his urban delivery which he holds and used to hold in conjunction with the afore mentioned rural duty on the 2 week rotate system he can get done nice and early but not so early on the rural but still well within duty time!!!

A God given right to finish early? Perhaps you should remind them that it is Royal Mail who is paying their wages not God and job and finish ceased under the 2007 agreement and you and your managers should make it very clear that no one will be leaving the office before the time set by the work plan - if you are overstaffed you are in much need of a revision. Perhaps it is offices like yours that give Royal Mail and the union the impression that there is time in hand for more and more work, and in your offices' instance they would be correct. 2150 new builds? This area has 350 new AREAS for development which will mean about 10-15,000 more houses but we won't be having any time inbuilt before they are occupied and generating mail.

I just wonder what sort of DOM you have and what sort of boss he has, because they wouldn't be in post too long in this area.

[LJR]

Common sense

Serious lack of that despite all the CWU literature on doing the job properley thats been pumped out over the last few years.

My members beive J and F is a sacred Cow that most not be slaughtered, they belive they have a god given right to J and F , they belive the CWU and its local rep should protect J and F.

On top of all that they belive they have a god given right to come in early and have their walksorted mail waiting for them, when it isnt then they get most annoyed if not angry, they belive the CWU should ensure that walksorted mail is available in full so they can have it all sorted into prep frame by 0610 when IPS is due to commence.

They belive they have a god given right which the CWU must protect to finish early every single day no ifs no buts!!!

The whole idea of working all paid work hours does not meet with approval from a lot of my mbrs.

Recently a mbr has moaned to the DOM he cant get a delivery he does on a semi regular basis (A rural that he is fully trained and experienced on but ceased to hold when we moved to fixed duties from 2 week rotate done) by a certain time of day, the DOM pointed out to him that his finish time is somewhat later than the time of day the mbr wants to be done for. It appears when he is on his urban delivery which he holds and used to hold in conjunction with the afore mentioned rural duty on the 2 week rotate system he can get done nice and early but not so early on the rural but still well within duty time!!!

Looking back at this post! If you think i am a w*nker please say it in 6 letters dont try to beat me with your mass of words because neither matter to me one way or another! (I think! Me!) that although we are in trouble as the CWU as a member we need our IR REPs knowledge now! Seems looking back at your posts you are well happy as is your office seems, You have NO ploblem with lapse and still have people going home early? As a PT you earn more from D2Ds even though you cut your hours (So lost the grandfather rights? As with our ofices outdoor indoor stuff I dont care about that because that is bad management and representation and when the pen pushers get there the office will be destroyed!!!!!!!!!!! You have had Sequenced Mail for a long time now? Can you tell RMC who many jobs you have lost from your DO since EARLY 2007? How many jobs that have gone P/T and what hours they do APX? Can you also tell us on RMC how many hours have been lost since you were voted in as IR? If your members are doing something wrong "I" would say you are doing it wrong not them! But still if you and your office are as good as you make out why are the CWU and RM not rolling you out as the perfect example of how we should all be? In truth i dont care because we are here on RMC and look for hints and titbits of advice and a way to blow off steam because its WRONG at RM and although i get many things wrong i and others dont work in the shangri la office you do? Oh When is your proper walk sequence review due? and to have anonymity can we have the figures by the thousand RM style that i have asked for so as not to compromise your office please?

[POSTMAN]

Not sure about anyone else here but i'm actually confused LJR why (to me at least ) it seems that you are having a pop at Daz here.
He's no doubt working with a bunch of w*****s,he's stating facts,and what is going on is not his fault.

[Big Daz]

Common sense

Serious lack of that despite all the CWU literature on doing the job properley thats been pumped out over the last few years.

My members beive J and F is a sacred Cow that most not be slaughtered, they belive they have a god given right to J and F , they belive the CWU and its local rep should protect J and F.

On top of all that they belive they have a god given right to come in early and have their walksorted mail waiting for them, when it isnt then they get most annoyed if not angry, they belive the CWU should ensure that walksorted mail is available in full so they can have it all sorted into prep frame by 0610 when IPS is due to commence.

They belive they have a god given right which the CWU must protect to finish early every single day no ifs no buts!!!

The whole idea of working all paid work hours does not meet with approval from a lot of my mbrs.

Recently a mbr has moaned to the DOM he cant get a delivery he does on a semi regular basis (A rural that he is fully trained and experienced on but ceased to hold when we moved to fixed duties from 2 week rotate done) by a certain time of day, the DOM pointed out to him that his finish time is somewhat later than the time of day the mbr wants to be done for. It appears when he is on his urban delivery which he holds and used to hold in conjunction with the afore mentioned rural duty on the 2 week rotate system he can get done nice and early but not so early on the rural but still well within duty time!!!

Looking back at this post! If you think i am a w*nker please say it in 6 letters dont try to beat me with your mass of words because neither matter to me one way or another! (I think! Me!) that although we are in trouble as the CWU as a member we need our IR REPs knowledge now! Seems looking back at your posts you are well happy as is your office seems, You have NO ploblem with lapse and still have people going home early? As a PT you earn more from D2Ds even though you cut your hours (So lost the grandfather rights? As with our ofices outdoor indoor stuff I dont care about that because that is bad management and representation and when the pen pushers get there the office will be destroyed!!!!!!!!!!! You have had Sequenced Mail for a long time now? Can you tell RMC who many jobs you have lost from your DO since EARLY 2007? How many jobs that have gone P/T and what hours they do APX? Can you also tell us on RMC how many hours have been lost since you were voted in as IR? If your members are doing something wrong "I" would say you are doing it wrong not them! But still if you and your office are as good as you make out why are the CWU and RM not rolling you out as the perfect example of how we should all be? In truth i dont care because we are here on RMC and look for hints and titbits of advice and a way to blow off steam because its WRONG at RM and although i get many things wrong i and others dont work in the shangri la office you do? Oh When is your proper walk sequence review due? and to have anonymity can we have the figures by the thousand RM style that i have asked for so as not to compromise your office please?

LJR

Please relax I have no issues with you what so ever and I fail to see how you get the w****r part from?

All I have done is laid out FACTS about my D.O nothing more nothing less to illustrate how barmy it is and what I am up against in the mindset of the mbrs.

Am I happy with my DO, well it could be a lot worse but it is by no means utopia. Absorption takes a average of 10 mins and is fixed at a maxium of 2 deliveries and does not happen day in day out, but at the moment we are doing most week days due to sick leave levels. (saturday absorption only happens when every saturday off peron who wants to work their day is in and duties are still uncoverred, again its a maxium of 2 deliveries) We even have some days more people working their day off than there is absorption When it does, there are times when a few mbrs wont be able to do their absorption and threfore dont. No action is taken against them.Most will complete their delivery duty and absorption and finsh early. Of course I dont want absorption but we have a agreement (phase 3) that says it can be done.

Mbrs bitch and moan about absorption , but the one thing they dont say to me is that they dont have time to do it, they do not say that to me or the DOM. Their objection is moral not operational. I had a mbr say to me a few weeks back why dont we just reduce the delivery duties by 2 and scrap absorption.

Reality is IPS would last around 90 mins a few years back now its a hour to a hour and a quarter most days and very often under a hour on saturday which used to be 60 mins. Now I cant control the IPS mail levels Vs Walksorted mail levels, the former has declined the later increased. Thats less time needed for IPS.

You ask many jobs have gone, the answer is one due to a pegasus revision in 2008 that the local mbrs gave a mandate to when I put it to a vote. and another OPG left RML on a stage 3 sick leave sacking HQ would not give ET representation to the mbr . Revisions were done in the contex of a area agreement. It was done on a 3hr 15 min span and a 88% call rate which was the what was agreed at area level for the area.

We do not have walk sequenced mail and will not have that untill 2012. Delivery methods is also 2012.

We have a pegasus revision this year which will do the DTD into workload thing and the no set delivery span, it is currently due for implementation Jan 2011, but the implementation schedule seems to be in a state of flux.

How many hours have been lost since I was voted in, well trhats 7 years ago now and I dont know to be honest, but there has been two revisions since then and revison basically hit the reset button and duties are formulated on the reality that is place at the time of revsion. I am certain the first savings came 2006 with the directive from HQ that was never voted on by the the national membership. But I do know how many duties there is now and how many we had upon implementation of 5 day week and 3.5 hour span both in 2004 with SDD revision. Not all hours lost have been down to me though, we lost some SA hours at stage 3 dissagrement but that was after i stood down as rep, so Im squeaky clean on that.

In 2004 the DOM and I increased the overall amount of duties by one. Since then the DOM support role has gone, became vacant never filled I gave the green light to saving those hours as it did not involve mbrs doing more work and mbrs did not object. Since 2004 the number of rural duties has stayed fix at 15 FT. In 2004 we had 3 firms duties all with varying amounts of residential/commercial DP's, since then due to housing growth on one of the duties which now stand at high 600's and is set to grow to nearly 1000 due to planning permissioon being granted recently we have took 2 of those duties including the one withe high growth level made some alterations so the commercial of both duties was put together and the remaing residentail ended up as 40 hour FT and we had a extra 20 hours beeing allocated to the workload as well and that 20 hours became a PT 20 hour duty on a permanent contract. As its small delivery the holder who is a mbr preps it himself. In 2006 there was a directive from CWU HQ about taking duties out/making savings and in return RML would give a payrise which turned out to be measley £3. My D.O took out two duties both FT as part of that. However I was the sub rep and had just stood down from main rep and switched to sub rep so I did not agree to the removal. Then as mention previsouly pegasus took out another delivery, again a urban FT and agreed by the mbrs. And that is it on AWD reduction. A 32 hour floater duty holder is leaving soon as yet no proposals from the DOM on covering the work but the DOM and I intend to meet when my leave ends.

FT to PT levels are a total of 4 mbrs going from FT to PT of their own free will, one has since left RML. The one that left went to 28 hours another went to 28 hours after illness as 40 hours was not possible for him and he wanted less hours. I went 30 hours from 40 in 2007 and in 2008 another FT a very senior one at that did the same and is seeing out his last few years on less hours and is claiming his pension as well. At peagasus revision ALL 28 hour PT became 30 hour FT and a 40 hour floater duty holder retired with a 32 hour floater coming into place.The 32 hour floater does FT and PT duties hence the 32 hours. Add up the daily hours of each duty covered and you get 32.

You suggest I am doing something wrong, yet I lead by example I do not go under my contracted 30 hours and I dont start early, no point in starting early as the walksorted seems to be coming later on a more frequent basis. I was told by my rep when I was a cadet not to carve up deliveries up or more work would be added. I still follow that advice 19 years later !!!

Due to 2010 agrement a revision will be planned later this year and the reset button will be pressed for a third time since I became a Rep. Now what do I want out of it? I want start times and mail arrival times to be in allingment thus eradicating the need to start early, I want a achiveable workload for each and every OPG and I want mbrs starting on time finishing on time.

You have said mbrs should not go out before X amount of time before duty finish time, but once IPS and prep are done there is no more indoor work other than RLE and callers office at my D.O. It is not my job to try and make mbrs do what you suggest , my job is try and mimise how much spare time is being shown and your suggestion would not achive that, but would achive posties standing around with no work for up to 2 hours, that of course managers would love as they OPGs will be showing very clearly spare capacity. For managers that is better than having to use the your not working fast enough/figures show mail is down argument for asorbing work.

Enough work at a reasonble pace to keep one going from start to finish is the what reps should seek.

[Big Daz]

dvbuk

My D.O has not had extra time for new houses yet, but the growth is at a level where the DOM wants it no longer absorbed by the 2 oversized pkt/pouch dropping off duties along with the early RLE duty but to actually have a OPG taking on the new estate. Without recruitment that will not happen untill revision is planned and introduced. Part of the 2150 is around 600 DP's going up on a old peice of industrial alnd at the entrance to one of our villages which is currently done by 3 FT duties. Those dwellings buit so far are being aborbed but once all are built, more hours will need to be allocated to the village.