April membership joiners and leavers

[numan]

To read the agreement as meaning £400 for everyone is a perfectly sensible view point, why cant the powers that be admit they made a mistake with the wording and say sorry?

Big Daz, probably because they hold the view that it doesn't matter what the wording actually says, just as long as the people involved in the talks understand what it means.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

To read the agreement as meaning £400 for everyone is a perfectly sensible view point, why cant the powers that be admit they made a mistake with the wording and say sorry?

Big Daz, probably because they hold the view that it doesn't matter what the wording actually says, just as long as the people involved in the talks understand what it means.

Bleeding hell those smoke filled rooms have a lot to answer for at the moment.

[fishtank]

Well to be honest if they have to hold their hands up and admit that they got what is arguably the most simple part of the agreement wrong then the chances of getting some of the more ridiculously worded parts right are pretty slim.

[andy2007]

It doesn't alter the fact, that they should hold their hands up to their mistake(s) and apologise.

[realmichael]

this is just the start of things to come brothers and sisters.

they can't even get the simple things right

[dvbuk55]

Dvbuk at no time did i ever say the £400 would not be paid pro rata. I did say it would be paid to indivduals who joined after 2007 and did not have colleague share certificates.

However colleague share has always been paid pro rata.

Now the reference to ask your manager is that you can hardly now ask the union can you.

North West membership is down due to the closures of mail centres nothing else.

Dvbuk you give myself enough crass comments and criticism you really should not moan when I give you one back.

Criticise away dingo, your remarks are like water off a ducks back. Well considering at the time the agreement was made I WAS a member of the union I feel justified in asking the question, and obviously asking my manager was a ridiculous statement - quite pointless.

Just as a matter of interest when did the MCs close in the North West? Wasn't that last year? I presume theses April figures are for 2010! I'm from the North West, don't work in a MC, BUT I do work, so it isn't solely mail centres, dingo is it.

You seem to be very defensive dingo, I mean you seem to know all things and you didn't say the £400 WOULDN'T be paid pro rata but the point I was making was that you DIDN'T say it WOULD. Especially as you keep saying it was CS money - which may well have been the source but was not paid as such including to those who weren't entitled to CS monies. So it either was CS money and should be paid pro-rata but only to those entitled to it OR it wasn't CS money and everyone should have received £400. It's simple enough, it can't be both, it has to be one or t'other.

[dvbuk55]

this is just the start of things to come brothers and sisters.

they can't even get the simple things right

There's the rub realmick, you would have thought the simple things would have been a breeze

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk Crewe mail centre into warrington.

[dvbuk55]

Dvbuk at no time did i ever say the £400 would not be paid pro rata. I did say it would be paid to indivduals who joined after 2007 and did not have colleague share certificates.

However colleague share has always been paid pro rata.

Now the reference to ask your manager is that you can hardly now ask the union can you.

North West membership is down due to the closures of mail centres nothing else.

Dvbuk you give myself enough crass comments and criticism you really should not moan when I give you one back.

Crewe into Warrington? Just the one then, it certainly looked a whole heap more the way you put it - rather like the £400

[Martin Walsh]

Big Daz I did not miss the point. Yes it is badly worded no doubt about it. However drafting an agreement of over 80 pages with ACAS and Roger Poole both doing their shuttle mediation is never easy.

However Dave Ward , Ray Ellis and Dale Haddon and Peter Walls know what was actually agreed and thats why the union has not come out and argued the case.

The reality of this agreement is that almost every paragraph has been subject to debate and arguement and both Royal Mail and the CWU along with ACAS and Roger Poole know what actually has been agreed.

There are pay directives which the company has shared with the union this week and have agreed no more will be issued without the union agreeing them.

Thats why on things like the 1 in 4 saturdays off if someone reads the agreement they always refer to the majority , whereas all those involved in the talks know its will be introduced in all offices who want it.

As I say the wording could have been different but the reality I doubt whether the £400 lump sum tipped the agreement to the yes camp .

Dvbuk the VRS being offered would have had an impact on the leavers would it not ?

[numan]

The reality of this agreement is that almost every paragraph has been subject to debate and arguement and both Royal Mail and the CWU along with ACAS and Roger Poole know what actually has been agreed.

Why is it so difficult to use words in such a way that there can be no doubt as to their meaning?

[dvbuk55]

The reality of this agreement is that almost every paragraph has been subject to debate and arguement and both Royal Mail and the CWU along with ACAS and Roger Poole know what actually has been agreed.

Why is it so difficult to use words in such a way that there can be no doubt as to their meaning?

Well according to something passed in conference, according to Big Daz, it should have been plain language only, so lucky that RM, the CWU, ACAS and Roger Poole know exactly what is agreed - none of whom are actually going to be doing any of the work involved.

Dingo, of course VRs would have had an impact, that wasn't my point, as well you know, you made it sound like wholesale slaughter on NW MCs - a bit of an exaggeration wouldn't you say. There is of course no correlation of how many left on amalgamation and therefore no evidence that the lower figure in the NW was SOLELY due to the single amalgamation is there? Just more evidence of the leap of faith is it?

[Dolphinboy]

By dingo publishing the figures, he seems to somehow believe that in some way they vindicate the 2010 and Beyond Agreement - they don't and the May figures will probably be worse - considering no workshops have taken place, RM and the CWU are just coming to the table to decide how to implement the agreement, and in essence no changes have taken place yet and the shark is yet to bite. People don't even know what they have agreed to yet, they obviously swallowed the snake oil in copious amounts, election material agreement? - still unpaid, £400 for ALL - well that certainly was a lie.

How much better would it have been if more people had joined and no-one had left?

Considering we had mail centres closing , and people retiring , leaving , and yes getting sacked you will never get a month when no one leaves the union.

I published the membership leavers and joiners to allow people to see what they were, nothing more and nothing less. My guess is the numbers joining were as a result of some of the campaigns branch`s made to ensure that people had a vote.

May will also show whether the numbers leaving are above what previous months trends have shown or not.

Now in terms of the workshops there is a number of meetings this week which will hopefully clarify things.

However at the moment nothing should change until we have an agreement on those issues which are at the heart of the national agreement. Now in terms of £400 I suggust you take that up with you manager. The union and management knew that past payments on Colleague share have been pro rata, I suggust you look up your share cerificate and it wll state it on that as well. No in terms of the free election material well there are still ongiong discussions on that matter including confirming with the body which authorises free election material what the central fund paid for. Remember that is what free election material is .

A lot of of the parties funded over an above this free election material the tories with Ashcroft money and was sent 1st or DSA this is what is currently being debated at national level.

Are you sure you were,nt gloating.

[numan]

The reality of this agreement is that almost every paragraph has been subject to debate and arguement and both Royal Mail and the CWU along with ACAS and Roger Poole know what actually has been agreed.

Why is it so difficult to use words in such a way that there can be no doubt as to their meaning?

Well according to something passed in conference, according to Big Daz, it should have been plain language only, so lucky that RM, the CWU, ACAS and Roger Poole know exactly what is agreed - none of whom are actually going to be doing any of the work involved.

You have to question the intelligence of these people if they waste their time arguing over ambiguous sentences.

[POSTMAN]

So..............4 dudes knew what the agreement actually meant,but forgot to tell the thousands who actually took it at face value and possibly voted accordingly.
And as the CWU knew what it meant and not it's members that's just tough on us then.