total sell out

[Flashman_]

I think the cwu deal is at total sell out. Yet again the carrot is danggled in front of postal workers to accept a deal wich is below par. Walk men such as myself are hit the hardest in this deal with lower door to door payments, varying start times and longer deliveries. Tell me how that is a good deal. All the cwu are interested in is maintaining their membership, as in payments from membership. they are in it for themselves as is Royalmail. Us the workers come in a solid last. Dont be told otherwise.

Surely £400 for agreeing the deal and a further £1000 is some compensation for keeping your job? lets not forget Royal Mail didn't want to pay us a bean extra and do all the things you have listed anyways. Door to door into work load to keep full time work with no payments and no supplement was just one battle the Union fought for us and won.

We would have got this anyway as it was due to us under past agreements as you clearly did not know this how can you say it is compensation for the loss of D2D and a life at the weekend?.

1in 4 Saturdays off is better than 1 in 6 is it not? For me personally as a full time rural driver with only 240 calls and a 20% cut of that going to the floater I only get about £8 a week on d2d even less if we only had 1 or 2 items that week. So for me personally the door to door was not really an issue. I come out of the deal better off marginally with the supplement being payed for my 6 weeks leave and any sick leave I may have.

The door to door is going to be automated at some point so we would of lost it anyways and only been payed for 1 item. Its not a great deal but what it does do is take care of our longer term future and securing a full-time job. Going by the numbers who voted 60,000 of the 120,000 couldnt care less anyways and only 20,000 voted NO. So it cant be that bad a deal over all! Only 20,000 unhappy enough to vote NO out of 120,000 tells a story in itself!

The vote was probably rigged, and if not the Union knew that there would be enough apathy and selfish people that would stitch up the rest who could clearly see that this was an abysmal deal. The Union blatantly disregarded the welfare of all in favour of getting an acceptable to enough deal! So much for unity!

Haha dear oh dear 1 in 6 people who are totally paranoid and delusional is probably a pretty fair ratio as well....The Union agreed a deal but it was the memberships role to vote for or against it. So you can slag the union as much as you like but the bottom line is that the workforce had the final say on the deal. Of those who were bothered enough by the proposed deal to vote 40,000 or so voted YES and 20,000 voted NO. The deal was good for more than it was bad. We live in a democratic society and the majority rules so I suggest you just crack on like the rest of us and make the deal work for you as best as it can.

Where do you get 1 in 6 from anyway the vote was carried by about 2 to 1 but a vast number of votes were not counted as they did not bother to vote or got "lost" The Union does have a very large role in the result too, As I am sure you will realise that what the executive recommends is what a lot of less thoughtful people will vote on, therefore giving the result they feel is right. It could be that all the people that did not vote, would have rejected it but felt that the recommendation from the Executive meant that it was as good as a done deal, which clearly it was!

You are clutching at straws here...second guessing why people didn't vote. Either way they didn't feel strongly enough to spend 5 seconds putting an X in a box and posting it back. 20,000 voted No and the other 100,000 voted yes or didn't bother to vote so that transpires to a ratio of 1 in 6 people voted no.

You cant say I am second guessing when you are assuming the ones that didn't vote would have voted yes, you are doing exactly what you just accused me of, LOL

[heathrow86]

Well to all the people who felt this was a good deal, wait for the changes to come. From what I have been told we in Network are already getting ready to be shafted!! My guess is early summer for 1st strikes!!

[NoSurrenderX]

I think the cwu deal is at total sell out. Yet again the carrot is danggled in front of postal workers to accept a deal wich is below par. Walk men such as myself are hit the hardest in this deal with lower door to door payments, varying start times and longer deliveries. Tell me how that is a good deal. All the cwu are interested in is maintaining their membership, as in payments from membership. they are in it for themselves as is Royalmail. Us the workers come in a solid last. Dont be told otherwise.

Surely £400 for agreeing the deal and a further £1000 is some compensation for keeping your job? lets not forget Royal Mail didn't want to pay us a bean extra and do all the things you have listed anyways. Door to door into work load to keep full time work with no payments and no supplement was just one battle the Union fought for us and won.

We would have got this anyway as it was due to us under past agreements as you clearly did not know this how can you say it is compensation for the loss of D2D and a life at the weekend?.

1in 4 Saturdays off is better than 1 in 6 is it not? For me personally as a full time rural driver with only 240 calls and a 20% cut of that going to the floater I only get about £8 a week on d2d even less if we only had 1 or 2 items that week. So for me personally the door to door was not really an issue. I come out of the deal better off marginally with the supplement being payed for my 6 weeks leave and any sick leave I may have.

The door to door is going to be automated at some point so we would of lost it anyways and only been payed for 1 item. Its not a great deal but what it does do is take care of our longer term future and securing a full-time job. Going by the numbers who voted 60,000 of the 120,000 couldnt care less anyways and only 20,000 voted NO. So it cant be that bad a deal over all! Only 20,000 unhappy enough to vote NO out of 120,000 tells a story in itself!

The vote was probably rigged, and if not the Union knew that there would be enough apathy and selfish people that would stitch up the rest who could clearly see that this was an abysmal deal. The Union blatantly disregarded the welfare of all in favour of getting an acceptable to enough deal! So much for unity!

Haha dear oh dear 1 in 6 people who are totally paranoid and delusional is probably a pretty fair ratio as well....The Union agreed a deal but it was the memberships role to vote for or against it. So you can slag the union as much as you like but the bottom line is that the workforce had the final say on the deal. Of those who were bothered enough by the proposed deal to vote 40,000 or so voted YES and 20,000 voted NO. The deal was good for more than it was bad. We live in a democratic society and the majority rules so I suggest you just crack on like the rest of us and make the deal work for you as best as it can.

Where do you get 1 in 6 from anyway the vote was carried by about 2 to 1 but a vast number of votes were not counted as they did not bother to vote or got "lost" The Union does have a very large role in the result too, As I am sure you will realise that what the executive recommends is what a lot of less thoughtful people will vote on, therefore giving the result they feel is right. It could be that all the people that did not vote, would have rejected it but felt that the recommendation from the Executive meant that it was as good as a done deal, which clearly it was!

You are clutching at straws here...second guessing why people didn't vote. Either way they didn't feel strongly enough to spend 5 seconds putting an X in a box and posting it back. 20,000 voted No and the other 100,000 voted yes or didn't bother to vote so that transpires to a ratio of 1 in 6 people voted no.

You cant say I am second guessing when you are assuming the ones that didn't vote would have voted yes, you are doing exactly what you just accused me of, LOL

I'm not second guessing..its fact. The numbers dont lie. 60,000 didn't feel strongly enough to vote. If you were just backing the executive you would of voted yes? If not no? to not bother at all is just that...not bothering.

[banner18]

Lets be realistic here. Only 20,000 could be bothered to vote no. Even if some didn't recieve their ballots I'm sure that the ratio of yes/no would be similar to the national vote.

The only people I have seen afraid of this deal are those that don't do the job right. Those that do and work their hours have nothing to fear apart from delivery spans being managed badly.
The deal makes it even more difficult for those trying to chase time out of the job and that is why a hardcore have got their backs up on here.

[Sergeant Blast]

You are clutching at straws here...second guessing why people didn't vote. Either way they didn't feel strongly enough to spend 5 seconds putting an X in a box and posting it back. 20,000 voted No and the other 100,000 voted yes or didn't bother to vote so that transpires to a ratio of 1 in 6 people voted no.

Interesting logic. Do you fancy organising the next Zimbabwe elections?

[NoSurrenderX]

You are clutching at straws here...second guessing why people didn't vote. Either way they didn't feel strongly enough to spend 5 seconds putting an X in a box and posting it back. 20,000 voted No and the other 100,000 voted yes or didn't bother to vote so that transpires to a ratio of 1 in 6 people voted no.

Interesting logic. Do you fancy organising the next Zimbabwe elections?

Good one...smart arse. 20,000 of 120,000 voted no so 1 in 6 people who were polled returned a no vote. Is it that so hard to grasp?

[dvbuk55]

Lets be realistic here. Only 20,000 could be bothered to vote no. Even if some didn't recieve their ballots I'm sure that the ratio of yes/no would be similar to the national vote.

The only people I have seen afraid of this deal are those that don't do the job right. Those that do and work their hours have nothing to fear apart from delivery spans being managed badly.
The deal makes it even more difficult for those trying to chase time out of the job and that is why a hardcore have got their backs up on here.

To say nothing of the cut in pay, increased workload and longer Saturdays I wonder what the vote would have been if the snake oil salesmen hadn't toured the country advocating the deal as the only option, if the truth had been told about the rewards, if the fact that the tools hadn't been agreed and there were more loose ends than a rag rug.

It only the needed the truth, nothing more nothing less what was spouted was pure propaganda aimed not for the benefit of the membership but for the leadership and their minions - the age old cry of politicians "three more years", that's the amount of time they have bought for themselves before the financial burden becomes too much and then what - well according to the truth "a merger", so much for loyalty to the membership when all they are looking for is someone else to provide their cash.

[Sergeant Blast]

You are clutching at straws here...second guessing why people didn't vote. Either way they didn't feel strongly enough to spend 5 seconds putting an X in a box and posting it back. 20,000 voted No and the other 100,000 voted yes or didn't bother to vote so that transpires to a ratio of 1 in 6 people voted no.

Interesting logic. Do you fancy organising the next Zimbabwe elections?

Good one...smart arse. 20,000 of 120,000 voted no so 1 in 6 people who were polled returned a no vote. Is it that so hard to grasp?

Which also means only 1 in 3 voted YES. Hardly a ringing endorsement. Yes probably smarter than you.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Good one...smart arse. 20,000 of 120,000 voted no so 1 in 6 people who were polled returned a no vote. Is it that so hard to grasp?

Tell me how calling someone a smart arse is debating

Read the rules

If someone has a different position to you please respect their right to have differing views, and enjoy yourself when picking holes in their position in a constructive way. We would much rather have a long winded well thought out argument, picking out weak points in someone's position, than have a thread full of 1 line insults.

[banner18]

Lets be realistic here. Only 20,000 could be bothered to vote no. Even if some didn't recieve their ballots I'm sure that the ratio of yes/no would be similar to the national vote.

The only people I have seen afraid of this deal are those that don't do the job right. Those that do and work their hours have nothing to fear apart from delivery spans being managed badly.
The deal makes it even more difficult for those trying to chase time out of the job and that is why a hardcore have got their backs up on here.

To say nothing of the cut in pay, increased workload and longer Saturdays I wonder what the vote would have been if the snake oil salesmen hadn't toured the country advocating the deal as the only option, if the truth had been told about the rewards, if the fact that the tools hadn't been agreed and there were more loose ends than a rag rug.

All dependent on your view point. You say cut in pay. I say a secured payment for a sustainable product rather than varying payments for a dubious product. Also the workload built into hours so effectively an extra payment for no extra work which is paid during holidays and sick.
You say increased workload. I say those that work all their hours at standard cannot have their workload increased. Those that don't work all their hours, well need I say more?
Longer saturdays? Well yes, but with the options available it may be possible to have 1 in 3 of them off. With part time cover options it may be possible to have every saturday off for those that want it. Is that so bad?

[Carnoustie]

It's ironic, on the night of a UK General Election, that people are trying to guess why only 54% of ballot papers were returned when we voted on the 2010 deal.

I heard a statistic on the news tonight that turnout in the last General Election was almost exactly the same percentage, 54%, up slightly from an all-time low of 49.1% in 2001. Yet I don't recall any of the parties screaming that 18.4 million ballot papers had 'gone missing' last time, or any accusations of vote-rigging on an industrial scale, do you ?

Is apathy running amok in this great democracy of ours ? Ah, sh!t, who gives a feck ?

To me, it's shocking how many of my colleagues can go out on strike, lose several days wages, then not even bother to vote.

If, as suggested, people really did choose not to vote 'because it's going to be a Yes vote anyway', has it still not dawned on them that if just 20,204 of those 55,000 non-voters had actually returned a No vote, the result would have been NO by a majority of 1 ?

The Yes voters won BECAUSE people stood back and let others decide their fate for them. As somebody else pointed out, the next time someone moans to me about changes that come in from this agreement, I'll bear in mind there's a good chance he/she didn't even use their vote

[jaja]

I think the cwu deal is at total sell out. Yet again the carrot is danggled in front of postal workers to accept a deal wich is below par. Walk men such as myself are hit the hardest in this deal with lower door to door payments, varying start times and longer deliveries. Tell me how that is a good deal. All the cwu are interested in is maintaining their membership, as in payments from membership. they are in it for themselves as is Royalmail. Us the workers come in a solid last. Dont be told otherwise.

THATS GOOD

[SexyLegs]

Can someone explain to me how we will end up working longer saturdays beacuse of this agreement?, I was under the impression that start times will revert to 7am from 5am eventually, meaning your finish time will be 3pm.............not ideal for the sporty amongst us I accept that, but certainly not a longer saturday???

Or am I missing something?

[stokes11eg]

Surely £400 for agreeing the deal and a further £1000 is some compensation for keeping your job? lets not forget Royal Mail didn't want to pay us a bean extra and do all the things you have listed anyways. Door to door into work load to keep full time work with no payments and no supplement was just one battle the Union fought for us and won.

The £400 isn't new money, we were going to get that as colleague shares in June. As for the £1000, if it means an increase on the 3.5hr delivery span, they can shove it. I haven't the energy for a 5hr marathon every day.
The union did not fight for anything, and it certainly won nothing for it's members.
We've ended up with exactly what RM wanted us to end up with, a job worth quitting.

Well said.

The further £1000.00 is not assured! you have to meet certain almost unacheivable targets to get it!

[bunkerland]

For me personally as a full time rural driver with only 240 calls

We've just had two similar duties to this made part-time after the duty holders retired after combining over 80 years service between them,when they were covered for a/l or days off the reserves called it their "holidays". Low calls,high mileage,low volumes of mail,the last bastions of the old Royal Mail service. I presume you're high in seniority and cling to this every re-signing. Whether you like to admit it or not,you have a very cushy number going on,compared to most. I bet there's other rurals going out with at least 2 or 3 times the volume of mail you do. A drive in the country with a few stop-offs,you must be exhausted when you get home.

As for your 1 in 6 ratio for no votes,your whole rationale in working it out is just so devoid of logic it's laughable. Don't be surprised if you get a call from government soon to work out the next unemployment figures !