The Most Unfair Pay Deal in the History of RMG

[TeeferTiger]

Your not getting paid to deliver D2Ds now, D2D money is now being paid as the delivery supplement. BTW, I don't like this or agree with it either as I'm P/T too

Well, you get paid PER D2D rather than just a lump sum regardless of how many houses you have to go to and how many D2Ds you have to lug around with you. In my mind, that's a fairer way to do it.

[Running Man]

Hi Big Daz.
I think el cartero just got his information wrong. You're spot on in that we won't get the £20.60 per week extra but I don't think an apology is necessary.
I'm just sympathising with the way in which you seem to have been backed into a corner with this terrible deal but I reckon it'll be your turn to sympathise with us in a week or two when we are offered some crumbs from the senior manager's table for a pay rise!
£20.60 a week?I'll be staggered if it's £2.60 a week and I am NOT joking!!!
At least your part of RMG is actually making some money while we are in fact still losing millions of pounds each year: about 30 million this year if estimates prove to be correct.
Redundancy Redundancy; where fore art thou Redundancy?

[Big Daz]

Why should someone with only 200 calls get paid the same as someone with 600 calls? More work is involved in prepping 600 D2Ds than there is in 200!

Its fair as you will be paid according to hours worked, perhaps we should pay rural driving staff less as they are spending more time driving rather than actually delivering as a bike/walk man would do? Same principle!!!

The only issue I have is that the basic pay increase was not enough to counteract the losses that some will sadly occur.

Wage equality for delivery staff is long overdue. All should have same money and make that money a bloddy good rate of pay!!!!!

[Big Daz]

Hi Big Daz.
I think el cartero just got his information wrong. You're spot on in that we won't get the £20.60 per week extra but I don't think an apology is necessary.
I'm just sympathising with the way in which you seem to have been backed into a corner with this terrible deal but I reckon it'll be your turn to sympathise with us in a week or two when we are offered some crumbs from the senior manager's table for a pay rise!
£20.60 a week?I'll be staggered if it's £2.60 a week and I am NOT joking!!!
At least your part of RMG is actually making some money while we are in fact still losing millions of pounds each year: about 30 million this year if estimates prove to be correct.
Redundancy Redundancy; where fore art thou Redundancy?

Take away the 150 million subsidy and your loss making, with it you were profit making last year i think.

[Running Man]

Absolutely spot on again Daz.
The only reason we were able to say we made a profit last year, and probably this year is due to an accounting change that took place about 18 months ago.
I got this directly from Alan Cook at a National Conference and know it to be correct.
The change was that the Government subsidy (the payment we receive to keep open the rural network which costs us millions to sustain), which you rightly say is currently 150 million, was allowed to be included as INCOME in our annual accounts as if it was money earned by the business. This had not been the case in previous years which was why our losses looked so bad. This money is now included as income in our accounts which for me simply papers over the cracks.
We continue to lose millions of pounds each year which is the reason why a lot, if not all, of the crown office network will be sold off early next year; no doubt about it in my mind.
Roll on 2011 when our crown office people can start to get on with the rest of their lives.

[not me]

The main point that I think is unfair regarding the £20 per week D2D thingy, and I'm sure I've mentioned this before, is that if a P/T OPG is covering a F/T duty and doing F/T hours, how is it that they still get the payment pro rata?!

The way things stand at the moment, you get paid for going to the houses effectively. The more houses you have, the more payment you receive.

A F/T OPG with 600 houses isn't going to be happy about receiving the same amount of money as someone who has a rural duty with only 200 calls.

I just don't think the £20 way of doing things is fair.

OK, they say "you get paid it even when you're not in work" but if you're only getting pro rata or a less fair share, then it doesn't really matter, there's still gonna be more losers with this scenario.

I still don't think the pro rata thing in general is fair. I realise this might seem like I'm biased as I'm on a 29.4 (yes, 29.4!!) hour contract. I've been working F/T hours for nearly a year now covering this that and the other but when the bonuses come round, I'll get a pro rata bonus. Yet they guy on the frame next to me who does no more work than he has to (I have to actually work 40 hours to get paid for them, he gets his contracted hours even if he does less), gets the full bonus.

Anyhoo, I just feel sorry for the people joining the company now. Gone right down hill in recent years and it's not going to get better. I've started doing a degree so I can get the flip out of this mess!

The reason is that P/T even covering a F/T walk is still P/T and can refuse to work over his/her contracted hours, the delivery supplement is based on your cotractual hours not the hours you work, well that is how my rep explained it to me, plus, don't class every rural as being in the countryside and small, I work in the subs and as such classed as rural, but my walk is 4.5 hours and if very busy over 5.

Yes they CAN refuse, but if they DON'T and work the same hours, why should they be penalised just because RM don't give out FT contracts anymore? The reason they want PT workers is so they can "flex up" to cover FT duties and they don't have to pay them FT wages when they're on a week off. What if you're on a ONE hour contract brought in to cover a FT duty due to sickness? How is it fair?

And I never classed a rural duty as small. There are rural duties that can have about 200 calls and still take the 4 hours or so to do. It's not the amount of time it takes I was getting at, it was the number of calls and being paid the same amount per round regardless of the number of calls. Why should someone with only 200 calls get paid the same as someone with 600 calls? More work is involved in prepping 600 D2Ds than there is in 200!

this was always my argument,we had guys on under 500 calls,i had 900.
yet i had the same allotted time as them for prep and delivery of D2D

[not me]

The more stuff I read about this deal the more depressing it gets!
It still totally baffles me how the CWU managed to 'sell' this deal to its members and then how those that were able to vote, voted 'YES'.
Let me say again that I work for counters and I can see, having read a notice board presentation prepared by the local CWU rep, that this is clearly a crap deal especially for the posties who seem to get the mucky end of the stick day in and day out.
I think the post that refers to bonuses being made up of money taken from you anyway is absolutely spot on and, in all honesty, it beggars belief that the majority of staff who voted 'YES' were obviously not able to see through this before casting their vote.
A great move by Aprilaydee in beginning to study for a degree and the very best of luck to you in finding a job with a decent employer when you achieve your goal; the only goal worth achieving with Royal Mail Group at present is redundancy before this Godforsaken place gets any worse, if that's possible!!!

on D2D's alone my old duty was over £30 a week on the 3 D2D's
so that £20 odd quid is a drop every week before you even look at anything else

[LJR]

The more stuff I read about this deal the more depressing it gets!
It still totally baffles me how the CWU managed to 'sell' this deal to its members and then how those that were able to vote, voted 'YES'.
Let me say again that I work for counters and I can see, having read a notice board presentation prepared by the local CWU rep, that this is clearly a crap deal especially for the posties who seem to get the mucky end of the stick day in and day out.
I think the post that refers to bonuses being made up of money taken from you anyway is absolutely spot on and, in all honesty, it beggars belief that the majority of staff who voted 'YES' were obviously not able to see through this before casting their vote.
A great move by Aprilaydee in beginning to study for a degree and the very best of luck to you in finding a job with a decent employer when you achieve your goal; the only goal worth achieving with Royal Mail Group at present is redundancy before this Godforsaken place gets any worse, if that's possible!!!

Cant speak for anyone else but i love being a postman and would like to think i do it well for all, i feel or have felt, pride in doing my job for mail houses my customers and RM. I will still mop the odd floor talk to the OAP that needs a chat or the young women with baby that meets no adults or housebound that needs a paper or a pint of milk and for me thats what makes life worth living so whilst angry about somethings i see life on my streets and when i feel a bit low i think of them. It does not always work but its enough at the momment.

[Big Daz]

Absolutely spot on again Daz.
The only reason we were able to say we made a profit last year, and probably this year is due to an accounting change that took place about 18 months ago.
I got this directly from Alan Cook at a National Conference and know it to be correct.
The change was that the Government subsidy (the payment we receive to keep open the rural network which costs us millions to sustain), which you rightly say is currently 150 million, was allowed to be included as INCOME in our annual accounts as if it was money earned by the business. This had not been the case in previous years which was why our losses looked so bad. This money is now included as income in our accounts which for me simply papers over the cracks.
We continue to lose millions of pounds each year which is the reason why a lot, if not all, of the crown office network will be sold off early next year; no doubt about it in my mind.
Roll on 2011 when our crown office people can start to get on with the rest of their lives.

Thinking about it more, it must reduce RMG profits by 150 million as well as its based on the combined profits off all sections of the group.

[krussel]

Ok ive avoided this thread to now as I knew I would get wound up and that it would turn into a rant, but its raining and I am stuck in so here goes.
Apologies in advance.

I thought and still think it is a terrible deal which is going to degrade the job to a further lower level mainly caused by delivering mailshot leaflets daily to customers that do not want them in the first place and thus will view us more as a nuisance than a service.

I accepted last year that the company was struggling to make any money due to the recession and the crippling DSA agreement which meant we had to suffer a pay freeze. On top of that we had to become flexible within the workplace and take on further prep and delivery work with absorption /lapsing.
Yet all the time we are working harder and harder for no increase in money they decide they can, in fact, afford to pay managers £1000’s in bonuses because of all the savings made by the sweat on our backs. All this under our very noses.

So now I work in a situation whereuopn the managers are falling over themselves in the mornings to load us up with all the extra absorption work meaning some guys are taking out up to 9 bags a day. Then when you finally return to the office at your finish time knackered with the all that extra walking you to find your caring bonus earning managers have buggered of home 2 hours early. Nice.

So we pay the CWU hoping that they will look after our interests, change the current unfair situation and improve our working conditions to prevent previously fit and active men/women having to accept medical retirement at 50 years due to ill health and be left as semi cripples from the effects of being overworked by an ever increasing workload.

AND WHAT do they do for us, they end up securing a deal which is totally unfair (d2d's) that means even more work to handle and an even shorter weekend for us to rest and recover our strength. Let alone the loss of quaility time with our families. (and no i dont think the 1in 4 sat's off make up for this)

Well a bloody big thanks Billy . Why not go to your local delivery office and work as a postie for a month and give it a go yourself. You might feel differently afterwards.

Rant over.

[LJR]

Ok ive avoided this thread to now as I knew I would get wound up and that it would turn into a rant, but its raining and I am stuck in so here goes.
Apologies in advance.

I thought and still think it is a terrible deal which is going to degrade the job to a further lower level mainly caused by delivering mailshot leaflets daily to customers that do not want them in the first place and thus will view us more as a nuisance than a service.

I accepted last year that the company was struggling to make any money due to the recession and the crippling DSA agreement which meant we had to suffer a pay freeze. On top of that we had to become flexible within the workplace and take on further prep and delivery work with absorption /lapsing.
Yet all the time we are working harder and harder for no increase in money they decide they can, in fact, afford to pay managers £1000’s in bonuses because of all the savings made by the sweat on our backs. All this under our very noses.

So now I work in a situation whereuopn the managers are falling over themselves in the mornings to load us up with all the extra absorption work meaning some guys are taking out up to 9 bags a day. Then when you finally return to the office at your finish time knackered with the all that extra walking you to find your caring bonus earning managers have buggered of home 2 hours early. Nice.

So we pay the CWU hoping that they will look after our interests, change the current unfair situation and improve our working conditions to prevent previously fit and active men/women having to accept medical retirement at 50 years due to ill health and be left as semi cripples from the effects of being overworked by an ever increasing workload.

AND WHAT do they do for us, they end up securing a deal which is totally unfair (d2d's) that means even more work to handle and an even shorter weekend for us to rest and recover our strength. Let alone the loss of quaility time with our families. (and no i dont think the 1in 4 sat's off make up for this)

Well a bloody big thanks Billy . Why not go to your local delivery office and work as a postie for a month and give it a go yourself. You might feel differently afterwards.

Rant over.

Your Rant is not over! Its just started but you have made a good start though.

[Running Man]

Fantastic rant from LJR.
I don't work in a delivery office but I speak regularly to our posties and read the local Have Your Say comments I and reckon there must be thousands of delivery office staff who could echo every word you've written.
Just like counters, a Great Place to Work- NOT!

[MinisterofCucumber]

The strategy of the people pulling the strings is to make RM a terrible place to work so that staff leave voluntarily.

[not me]

The strategy of the people pulling the strings is to make RM a terrible place to work so that staff leave voluntarily.

i have said that often at work
they want as many FT posties to leave without VR
so cranking it up constantly pushes them out

[krussel]

Fantastic rant from LJR.
I don't work in a delivery office but I speak regularly to our posties and read the local Have Your Say comments I and reckon there must be thousands of delivery office staff who could echo every word you've written.
Just like counters, a Great Place to Work- NOT!

Ok not going to rant again, promise

With ref to " have your say" i have for many years written down things which are really un-fair in my office. These include many un-balanced deliverys with some finishing 3 hours earlier on a sat and others getting £50 p/w overtime for empting a couple of boxes whilst go around their delivery. It all got printed out and put on the wall and NOTHING ever got done about it, ever.

So i ve given up on the comments now.