Time to stop chasing time

[numan]

Afterall the irony is that what the majority of you are complaining about and are leaving the union over is the terms and conditions like delivery spans , like door to door payments and earlier saturdays which was achieved by the CWU and two out of those 3 were negotiated by Dave Ward and Bob Gibson . ( early saturdays and delivery spans )

That's an interesting take on it, my own view is that we already had early Saturdays, along with every other day of the week.

[numan]

Remember the agreement is desined to have no execitive action so if you dont like the delivery spans or the plan well you dont agree to it.

The agreement is also designed to do away with taking I.A., so if we don't agree to it, then what?

[pickaname]

Why are you still talking about this?

CWU membership is declining drastically year on year and half of the remaining members arent interested.

At current rates of decline, in ten years there will be less than 30,000 members.

The union is finished.

END OF.

[Cut Off King]

got it wrong 'the truth' it USED to have 'a proud tradition' now though it's self preservation for the unions paid representives thats seems the priority, a union that does not protect 'ALL' it's members is a sham union. every paying member has a right to be protected not just the 'lucky' ones utter contempt for 'ALL' members it seems is the ethos of our elected representatives

Well said that man

[Cut Off King]

a small miniority of delivery postman intially lose.

90% Of union members in my office will lose money, thats NOT a minority

[dvbuk55]

Spot on axeman, the likes of the truth and dingo and lovejoy will not be concerned one iota by the changes because they do not affect them in the slightest, they don't work now and they won't work tomorrow. They belong to the idle chattering classes, talking a good job and shamelessly agreeing to changes for you that will only increase your burden whilst lessening theirs. They are elected in the same way that politicians are elected not by the majority but by those who bother to vote but don't bother to stand. Does that make them capable people?, of course not, it makes them electable just like the bunch at Westminster.

[SexyLegs]

This may be controversial but, you lot just don't get it do you...........

I'm the same as all you guys in the respect that I'm a delivery postman, on here moaning about the 'yes' vote, but I don't look at this and think I'll be worse off, for a start I'll still have a job, so that's about £300 a week better off for starters, then I'm going to get an extra £20.60 in my wages every week for delivering a few leaflets to houses I'm going to anyway with live mail! Royal Mail were seriously considering doing away or going a different direction with D2D so we could have ended up with £0 per week so I see the £20.60 as a bonus........

The saturday argument is in my opinion the most controversial and I agree with most of you that it means you can't play or watch sport, well, I think you'll be surprised, so we won't be starting until 7am, your finish time in that case, if you don't take a break will be 14.20pm, you don't have to work past that time, it's up to you within your offices to come up with solutiuons that work for you, if that means not doing an extra 1/8, 1/4 or 1/2 round on a saturday then don't agree to it, it's in your hands and you will get opportunities to come up with ways to make it work for you!

We had it very easy for a very long time and now we're moving into the real world and some of you don't seem to like it, well get over it and get on with it cos all your managers want you to do is work the hours you are paid for, is that such a crime? In any other job you wouldn't expect to leave 2 hours early just because you'd completed the task you were given to do would you, you'd be found something else to do or you'd make that task last all day.

Honestly, you're like a load of kids that haven't got their own way, well life's not like that so move with the times or bugger off and find another job but stop bitching on this site cos you're all doing my head in.

It couldn't go on like it was could it, we were taking the piss and had been for years and years!!!

Embrace the changes and make them work for you, I believe you'll be pleasantly surprised by what comes out of this

[numan]

all your managers want you to do is work the hours you are paid for, is that such a crime? :

I don't know where you work but for most of us the early finish went out a long time ago and I think most people's experience is that their manager wants them to squeeze more work than they can manage in the hours they're contracted for.

[SexyLegs]

So you slow down without taking the piss, inform your DIM or DOM that you don't expect to complete and you have to finish on time, they have to either take work off the walk that day or find a suitable alternative but you must start working smarter, not harder, if you start at 6am then get there at 5.59am, work smart is the way forward!!!!!

[fishtank]

The one thing this agreement will do is agree realistic standards. ACAS guidelines state that 75 BSI is the norm in British industry. Any thing over 75 must have some motivation for the worker.
For the first time standards are going to be in place and we have indpendent people oversee an agreement. This should stop managment introducing unagreed and unworkable standards and therefore stop mangement bullying on perfomance.

Agreed standards or unagreed standards,managers will still use them to bully members on performance.
Only now they are agreed members won't have any argument when they are shown the door.

Lastly with regards to some of your fears of longer spans , the agreement talks about fratigue and stress and you will have a vote on your local agreement and you will be involved in shaping that agreement. Remember the agreement is desined to have no execitive action so if you dont like the delivery spans or the plan well you dont agree to it.

Yes it talks about fatigue but that's all it does.
How do you quantify fatigue and how do you apply it to different age groups,gender and fitness levels?

Both parties are fully committed to all elements of this national agreement and neither will sanction any local negotiations which seek to change the principles or spirit of this agreement and/or make their deployment less effective and/or delay implementation.
So how long can you refuse to agree to delivery spans before you are accused of delaying the implementation of the agreement?

In terms of saturdays there are many options for less saturdays.

All self-funding and all meaning more work and longer hours.

Remember door to door will eventually be automated and we have to protect full time jobs now.

But how do we protect full time jobs when it is automated?
What goes into workload then...pizza delivery,meter reading,pole dancing.........

[oggie]

sexylegs u r so right but be ready for the attack from the gloom and doomers.

[fishtank]

The saturday argument is in my opinion the most controversial and I agree with most of you that it means you can't play or watch sport, well, I think you'll be surprised, so we won't be starting until 7am, your finish time in that case, if you don't take a break will be 14.20pm, you don't have to work past that time,

First of all thats a breach of H&S regulations,you have to take at least 20mins in the middle of your shift.
Secondly it is very UNLIKELY that in order to achieve 1 in 4 Sat off you will still be working an 8hr day.
Do some research first before you start spouting off.

[fishtank]

So you slow down without taking the piss, inform your DIM or DOM that you don't expect to complete and you have to finish on time, they have to either take work off the walk that day or find a suitable alternative but you must start working smarter, not harder, if you start at 6am then get there at 5.59am, work smart is the way forward!!!!!

The suitable alternative will be to accelerate your prep and give you a longer optimum delivery span.

[pinstripe]

The saturday argument is in my opinion the most controversial and I agree with most of you that it means you can't play or watch sport, well, I think you'll be surprised, so we won't be starting until 7am, your finish time in that case, if you don't take a break will be 14.20pm, you don't have to work past that time,

First of all thats a breach of H&S regulations,you have to take at least 20mins in the middle of your shift.
Secondly it is very UNLIKELY that in order to achieve 1 in 4 Sat off you will still be working an 8hr day.
Do some research first before you start spouting off.

Who in their right mind is going to work their 8 hour shift without a break, just so they can finish 40 minutes early? By the way 14.20 is not early on any day of the week. If management/CWU allow this, what is to stop the same staff doing it Monday to Friday? More importantly, what effects will this have on sick levels? A ludicrous suggestion.

[BELIAL]

This may be controversial but, you lot just don't get it do you...........


We had it very easy for a very long time and now we're moving into the real world and some of you don't seem to like it, well get over it and get on with it cos all your managers want you to do is work the hours you are paid for, is that such a crime? In any other job you wouldn't expect to leave 2 hours early just because you'd completed the task you were given to do would you, you'd be found something else to do or you'd make that task last all day.

Honestly, you're like a load of kids that haven't got their own way, well life's not like that so move with the times or bugger off and find another job but stop bitching on this site cos you're all doing my head in.

It couldn't go on like it was could it, we were taking the piss and had been for years and years!!!

Embrace the changes and make them work for you, I believe you'll be pleasantly surprised by what comes out of this

You're very sure of yourself Sexylegs. Very neat homespun kitchen sink philosophy , unfortunately real life is a wee bit more complicated than your model allows for.

Have you considered the possibility that not every office operates in exactly the same way as yours? It's a big wide world out there and I think you might find not all the brothers have been living in the same cushy bubble.
Maybe you should leave out the aggressive 'management speak' until you broaden your horizons , or maybe leave it out altogether you might come across as more reasonable instead of as bombastic