Union lies

[Martin Walsh]

That may be how you read it, RM however will read it differently.

No that is how it reads there will not be day specific items until agreed . remember if Royal Mail fail them they have to pay compensation to the company plus the costs of setting up any extra staff they may take on as a result of any specific door to door drop. Remember most delivery on Saturdays until you have your revision .

Dingo it's not so long since you were telling us there would be no immediate increase in D2D.

Royal Mail read THAT differently.

D2D sales are expected to ramp up as follows: 4 items from Agreement, 5 items from 12th July (to be confirmed) , 6 items from 3rd January and thereafter greater volumes as delivery methods roll out continues and D2D automation comes on stream.

The document everyone has just seen titled planning the intrduction of door to door into workload is not an agreed document. I have never said that they will not be an increase I have said it will be managed very sensitively for a number of reasons.

Some of you may or may not know that some compaines go straight to Royal Mail on Door to Door but a significant number go via a third party company like the Leaflet company who get the best deals for the compaines around the market. The Leaflet company stated last week they are cautious about the removal of the cap in Royal Mail as a company normally experiences a certain level of feedback on their unaddressed item, if that level of enquires go down when 4 or 5 items land on the mat then they may be tempted to switch.

So Royal Mail want to grow it clamly with 4 items first and then the review before any more.

Anyway the titled to this was union lies and I have put what the agreement states and it is not a lie. Door to Door specific items have not yet been agreed with the CWU. They will form part of the on going review on door to door.

[dvbuk55]

That may be how you read it, RM however will read it differently.

No that is how it reads there will not be day specific items until agreed . remember if Royal Mail fail them they have to pay compensation to the company plus the costs of setting up any extra staff they may take on as a result of any specific door to door drop. Remember most delivery on Saturdays until you have your revision .

Dingo it's not so long since you were telling us there would be no immediate increase in D2D.

Royal Mail read THAT differently.

D2D sales are expected to ramp up as follows: 4 items from Agreement, 5 items from 12th July (to be confirmed) , 6 items from 3rd January and thereafter greater volumes as delivery methods roll out continues and D2D automation comes on stream.

The document everyone has just seen titled planning the intrduction of door to door into workload is not an agreed document. I have never said that they will not be an increase I have said it will be managed very sensitively for a number of reasons.

Some of you may or may not know that some compaines go straight to Royal Mail on Door to Door but a significant number go via a third party company like the Leaflet company who get the best deals for the compaines around the market. The Leaflet company stated last week they are cautious about the removal of the cap in Royal Mail as a company normally experiences a certain level of feedback on their unaddressed item, if that level of enquires go down when 4 or 5 items land on the mat then they may be tempted to switch.

So Royal Mail want to grow it clamly with 4 items first and then the review before any more.

Anyway the titled to this was union lies and I have put what the agreement states and it is not a lie. Door to Door specific items have not yet been agreed with the CWU. They will form part of the on going review on door to door.

Well RM obviously think they have a plan and tell me dingo, what's the CWUs plan, would it be different or the same? How quickly after the agreement do you think the proposals will take to finalise - no time at all I would guess. I would presume that the "artificial cap" you mentioned previously would be the 4 but why not suggest that in the first place - would it be that there could well be 5, 6 or a specific day prior to agreement in certain areas?

[BELIAL]

The document everyone has just seen titled planning the intrduction of door to door into workload is not an agreed document. I have never said that they will not be an increase I have said it will be managed very sensitively for a number of reasons.

Some of you may or may not know that some compaines go straight to Royal Mail on Door to Door but a significant number go via a third party company like the Leaflet company who get the best deals for the compaines around the market. The Leaflet company stated last week they are cautious about the removal of the cap in Royal Mail as a company normally experiences a certain level of feedback on their unaddressed item, if that level of enquires go down when 4 or 5 items land on the mat then they may be tempted to switch.

So Royal Mail want to grow it clamly with 4 items first and then the review before any more.

Dingo ,you do know that response rate is not the biggest factor as far as D2D success is concerned. Building brand awareness and displacing competitors brands is the sole purpose of many D2D's , response rate does not figure. Advertising companies will be turning the above argument on it's head "can you afford not to advertise when your major competitors brand is hitting the doormat every month?"

[feduppostie]

dingo

the union told me there would be no sudden increase in d2d

they also said delivery spans would decrease

they also told me to go strike for a better deal

they lied

they won't ever get over that

the union is finished - well done RM

they played a blinder while we all believed our union

not any more

[Big Daz]

That may be how you read it, RM however will read it differently.

Then thats a trust issue and not a issue with the wording of the agreement

[Martin Walsh]

I know your fed up but when did the union ever say delivery spans would get shorter ? For the last few years the union has said that you will lose indoor workload due to improved automation and walk seqeuencing and the only way that full times jobs could be protected was if you had longer over the ground time.

But the key was that you had the tools to do the jobs. Now through delivery methods you will have the tools.

What makes the UK any different from everyother postal country who all have longer delivery spans ? The states have an unlimited span as does Germany . Holland have a 5 hour span , France have a longer span.

The difference is that we have always relied on people loading their cars and chasing time.

I go to about 100 different delivery offices per year and lets be honest there still loads of people who think they can make time. The most common moan is that there are still people coming in before time , or dirve their cars.

Well like it or not , Royal Mail have decided to invest in CDVs on a massive scale and that is going to be the normal delivery model for all walks more than a mile from the office. Private cars will be banned .

Now in terms of door to door increasing , when have the union stated they wont increase ? However they will only increase on a realistic manner and once their are 6 then the bussiness will then switch them to automation.

Look if walk sequencing saves 19 mins of every thousand letters and the workplan means if you have CSS walk sequencing then you may not have your second batch of work until 10 in the morning then why would you not want door to door into measured workload in order to protect your job ?

The union will survive it always does. The reality is that some of you will see over time that the world does not finish tomorrow with a YES vote.

The longer term test will be to ensure that the agreement is introdcued fairly in all parts of the country.

[proper postie]

Apparently the FSM counts both the flats and the letters, I was told that by the MC FSM manager.

What pees me off is the damn code sticker that is always put right over the address.

Those get thrown down the primary well away from me.

I got told MC staff do that when theyre bored to piss us off

ha ha really? you're probably taking the piss but that would actually be quite funny if it was true

[numan]

For the record there will be no instant day specific door to door items.

The agreement states the following

THE CWU WILL BE INVOLVED IN QUARTERLY REVIEW MEETINGS, WHICH WILL PROVIDE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE CWU AND ROYAL MAIL TO REVIEW OPERATIONAL CHALLENGES , PRODUCT DEVLOPMENTS , AND WORK TOGETHER TO IDENTIFY NEW PRODUCTS AND FURTHER GROWTH OPPORTUNITES, INCLUDING THE POTENTIAL FOR AUTOMATION WHICL WILL BE DRIVEN BY COMMERCIAL VIABILITY LINKED TO VOLUME.

BOTH PARTIES ALSO RECOGNISE THAT IN ADDITION TO GROWTH IN THE CORE PRODUCT FURTHER COMMERCIAL OPPORTUNITIES ARE LIKELY TO EXIST PARTICULARLY FOR NAMED /SPECIFIC DAY(s) PRODUCTS AND OR SATURDAYS WHICH MAY PROVIDE ROYAL MAIL WITH ADDITIONAL SCOPE FOR INCREASED REVENUE. IN ORDER TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF ANY POTENTIAL IN THIS AREA ANY FURTHER COMMERCIAL OPPORTUNITES WILL REMAIN SUBJECT TO ONGOING DIALOGUE, JOINT MONTIORING AND REVIEW AND WILL ALSO BE DISCUSSED AND AGREED WITH THE CWU NATIONALLY AT THE QUARTERLY REVEIW MEETINGS WITH A VIEW TO CAPTURING ANY VIABLE OPPORTUNITES FOR MUTUAL BENEFIT OF ROYAL MAIL AND ITS EMPLOYEES AND TO ALSO DEAL WITH ANY WORKLOAD ISSUES.

So there will not be any day specific door to door on any day. This will be discussed at the quaterly review meetings and there will have to be more money on the table for the cwu to agree the day specific door to door.

But there is NO more money Dingo, at least that's what you've been telling us at every opportunity.

[Martin Walsh]

Numan there will be if Royal Mail move on day specific door to door.

[numan]

And you honestly believe that as D2D are part of the workload that some of that extra profit will be passed on to the workforce?

[andy2007]

It'll be available. Whether that means that they'll use it, is another matter entirely. Besides IMHO there are far more important issues than money in this deal.

[numan]

It'll be available. Whether that means that they'll use it, is another matter entirely. Besides IMHO there are far more important issues than money in this deal.

I totally agree Andy, I'm just interested if this extra money will be an increase in the delivery supplement, meaning that p/t staff get pro rata payments for delivering specific day D2D items.

[Martin Walsh]

And you honestly believe that as D2D are part of the workload that some of that extra profit will be passed on to the workforce?

Read the agreement it states CAPTURING ANY VIABLE OPPORTUNITIES FOR MUTUAL BENEFIT OF ROYAL MAIL AND ITS EMPLOYEES. I know why those words were agreed and it was on the basis of if door to door revenue increases then we want a share of the pot again.

[numan]

And you honestly believe that as D2D are part of the workload that some of that extra profit will be passed on to the workforce?

Read the agreement it states CAPTURING ANY VIABLE OPPORTUNITIES FOR MUTUAL BENEFIT OF ROYAL MAIL AND ITS EMPLOYEES. I know why those words were agreed and it was on the basis of if door to door revenue increases then we want a share of the pot again.

Which would have to be in the form of an increase in the delivery supplement, would it not?

[fishtank]

And you honestly believe that as D2D are part of the workload that some of that extra profit will be passed on to the workforce?

Read the agreement it states CAPTURING ANY VIABLE OPPORTUNITIES FOR MUTUAL BENEFIT OF ROYAL MAIL AND ITS EMPLOYEES. I know why those words were agreed and it was on the basis of if door to door revenue increases then we want a share of the pot again.

And if Royal Mail say no dingo,what then?
The agreement does not gaurantee us a share of anything.