Non Drivers?

[dvbuk55]

Employment law is not on our side on this issue. The law is an ass.

This was proved when postman were forced to drive car dervied vans during last years dispute. We got legal advice from specialists and it was not very good. Our members in the end had to make a choice did they face displine or did they drive. Some who decided to do that now perfer the CDVs.

Royal Mail do their homework , they know who use their private cars on delivery now , and they also know that it restricts space for private cars in yards etc. Plus just as important it restricts the duties you can sign for.

For example if you have 30 walks , 20 and them CDVs and 10 HCT walks then a non driver can only sign for 5 duties on the CDVs and the 10 duties on the HCT walks. As non driving shared van partners should be restricted to 50% or less of the total number of shared van partners.

The agreement does talk about that DRIVING DUTIES WILL BE RESTRICTED TO EXISTING AND VOLUNTEER NEW DRIVING DUTIES AND NON DRIVING DUTIES WILL BE RESTRICTED TO NON -DRIVERS.

In practice of course a driver of a CDV has more responsibility than the non driving co worker in a shared partnership. Could the union not have used the clause in the contract that states "occasional driving" - using a vehicle for CDV duties every day is hardly occasional. What this agreement does is force people to drive against their wishes - I personally do not drive for Royal Mail and never have and would certainly take umbrage at being forced to do so. The fact that I drive a car is of no concern to Royal Mail. Would the union defend a postman who having worked for Royal Mail for many years being told he must drive refuses, it was not part of the original contract and I feel he would be justified in saying no.

[pickaname]

Royal Mail CANNOT force you to drive against your will. Nothing in my contract about it so its not going to happen....ever.

Anyone who say otherwise is clueless or bullshitting.

Just because you have a license doesnt mean you HAVE to drive. You may have got a license for recreational purposes only, so why should you be forced to drive commercially? Its cobblers...

This is just more bullshit concocted by RM and the union to scare people into driving cause if nobody volunteers this new agreement would be DOA.

If all else fails just dont tell them if you have a license or not.

[Martin Walsh]

Royal Mail CANNOT force you to drive against your will. Nothing in my contract about it so its not going to happen....ever.

Anyone who say otherwise is clueless or bullshitting.

Just because you have a license doesnt mean you HAVE to drive. You may have got a license for recreational purposes only, so why should you be forced to drive commercially? Its cobblers...

This is just more bullshit concocted by RM and the union to scare people into driving cause if nobody volunteers this new agreement would be DOA.

If all else fails just dont tell them if you have a license or not.

iT is not bull s**t , I have the legal advice to prove it , like I say the cdv guidelines which Royal Mail used last year did force people to drive.

However and you must read the post the union has sercured significant changes to those guidelines which now state THAT DRIVING DUTIES WILL BE RESTRICTED TO EXISTING AND VOLUNTEER NEW DRIVERS.

So you will not be forced to drive. Some of you believe they know the law but you dont , thats why we pay as a union a lot of money to employment specialists rather then rely on backroom lawler like your self.

[POSTMAN]

Simple question,and a simple yes or no.

Can those who either can drive and do not use their car for work,or those who can drive and use their car for work,be forced to drive a CDV?

Edit:posted after dingo's reply,so that's a NO then?

[fishtank]

dingo wrote
THAT DRIVING DUTIES WILL BE RESTRICTED TO EXISTING AND VOLUNTEER NEW DRIVERS.

I'm fine with the volunteer drivers but what exactly constitutes an existing driver?
And if i am an existing driver but do not wish to drive a cdv what then?

[Martin Walsh]

If you are an existing driver then you can only come off of driving if that does not leave your office short of drivers that's always been the case. That is why the guidelines say that only non drivers can sign for non driving duties . Remember the vast majority of drivers volunter to perform driving duties , some may still be in reciept of the 6 pounds reserved rights , some may also be in reciept of the high top allowance.

[POSTMAN]

dingo wrote
THAT DRIVING DUTIES WILL BE RESTRICTED TO EXISTING AND VOLUNTEER NEW DRIVERS.

I'm fine with the volunteer drivers but what exactly constitutes an existing driver?
And if i am an existing driver but do not wish to drive a cdv what then?

Are CDV's quite low,because we had one of those small vans at our place,i can't think what they are called for the life of me but it was a 2 seater with the cage in the back.
My point is a lot of us could not use it as the constant getting in and out was hurting our backs and knees,i certainly would not be able to use them.

[pickaname]

Royal Mail CANNOT force you to drive against your will. Nothing in my contract about it so its not going to happen....ever.

Anyone who say otherwise is clueless or bullshitting.

Just because you have a license doesnt mean you HAVE to drive. You may have got a license for recreational purposes only, so why should you be forced to drive commercially? Its cobblers...

This is just more bullshit concocted by RM and the union to scare people into driving cause if nobody volunteers this new agreement would be DOA.

If all else fails just dont tell them if you have a license or not.

iT is not bull s**t , I have the legal advice to prove it , like I say the cdv guidelines which Royal Mail used last year did force people to drive.

However and you must read the post the union has sercured significant changes to those guidelines which now state THAT DRIVING DUTIES WILL BE RESTRICTED TO EXISTING AND VOLUNTEER NEW DRIVERS.

So you will not be forced to drive. Some of you believe they know the law but you dont , thats why we pay as a union a lot of money to employment specialists rather then rely on backroom lawler like your self.

Legal advice doesnt mean its law, dingo. Much law in this country is the result of juducial precident as there is no written constitution. If you can show me a case where an employer successfully forced an employee to drive after a court injunction then your claim regarding last years dispute would be easier to digest.
Also I think you should edit your post to "thats why we WASTE as a union a lot of money to employment specialists..."

[fishtank]

If you are an existing driver then you can only come off of driving if that does not leave your office short of drivers that's always been the case. That is why the guidelines say that only non drivers can sign for non driving duties . Remember the vast majority of drivers volunter to perform driving duties , some may still be in reciept of the 6 pounds reserved rights , some may also be in reciept of the high top allowance.

The vast majority of my office have been assessed by Royal Mail for driving and have driven at some point in the past.
Does this make them existing drivers?
If an existing driver picks a cdv duty that already has a driver assigned does he then have to drive?
This would not be affecting the number of drivers in the office as a cdv duty can allegedly be just as effective with one driver.

[fishtank]

Are CDV's quite low,because we had one of those small vans at our place,i can't think what they are called for the life of me but it was a 2 seater with the cage in the back.
My point is a lot of us could not use it as the constant getting in and out was hurting our backs and knees,i certainly would not be able to use them.

The Peugot Bipper is not too bad for getting out of as they sit quite high of the road,a bit like the Ford Connect but they are not the biggest of vans.
I'm 6 foot exactly and thats about the limit,my mate is 6ft 5in he coudn't get in it.

[pickaname]

Sick and holiday cover?

No chance of this getting covered on a day to day basis with so many drivers needed. They cant even cover it now ffs.

Only a moron would concoct a CDV scheme

[dvbuk55]

There is of course the fact that driving is a skill which Royal Mail want to utilise and so should they not pay us to do it? I think more people woould be willing to drive if, like some of their colleagues, they were paid to do it. Still we pay hundreds of thousands of pounds for people to negotiate these things for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[POSTMAN]

There is of course the fact that driving is a skill which Royal Mail want to utilise and so should they not pay us to do it? I think more people woould be willing to drive if, like some of their colleagues, they were paid to do it. Still we pay hundreds of thousands of pounds for people to negotiate these things for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They did negotiate it a few years back,and we voted to get rid of the driving allowance.

[dvbuk55]

There is of course the fact that driving is a skill which Royal Mail want to utilise and so should they not pay us to do it? I think more people woould be willing to drive if, like some of their colleagues, they were paid to do it. Still we pay hundreds of thousands of pounds for people to negotiate these things for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They did negotiate it a few years back,and we voted to get rid of the driving allowance.

That was then and this is now - new agreement new negotiations, new pay structure.

[charlie1]

It all depends on what your contract of employment states, along with the job description for the vacancy you applied for. Not all Royal Mail delivery jobs specified driving as a condition for obtaining the job, if it did then you would almost certainly have been asked to provide your driving licence at interview.

However if you have voluntarily agreed to drive since starting work, it could be deemed by Royal Mail you have agreed to a permanant change in your terms and conditions. Think very carefully before volunteering as it may not be possible to refuse to do so at a later date.

Royal Mail however may say their is no job for you if you refuse to volunteer to drive, this could then fall into a redundancy situation as you could argue your job has been made redundant. I am no expert but I believe in law technically its Jobs that are made redundant and not people. You could argue here that your terms and conditions would need a major change for it to include driving and their is a consultation process which should be followed for this to happen, it should not just be imposed on you.

Plus just imposing a driving duty on you in this way purely because you can drive, could also lead to discrimination claims. As people who dont hold driving licences but currently have the same terms and conditions could not be asked drive. unless that is Royal Mail insist they sit a driving test??