CWU Dave Ward - Voting No To Agreement Not Alternative To Ch

[drb]

He is obviously getting the hump,(Dingo),because everyone seems to blame "the union" on things that happen to be OUR fault. Ask ourselves :

. Who agreed to revisions in their office after 2007?
. Who agreed to part timers taking full time vacancies in their office
. Who did not write to their MP in 2006 opposing the(too early) postal liberlisation?

On this basis we have no "pot to piss in" and no window to throw it out.On that basis what deal would you have struck?

[raged1999]

Ok. I have been browsing this forum for the last week. I did not want to get involved in, what looked like, personal feuds and disagreements. having now spent my time digesting as many posts as I can, I have to say that, to me, it appears that in Dingo, senior union member or not, we have a full blown management apologist. Sorry Dingo, but you do not seem to be representing what the average Union member thinks.

Just today, I have received my invitation to the Cropthorne Hotel to celebrate my 20 years service (actually 21 years now). I would probably go if I thought for a second that management actually gave a toss about me as a "valued employee". I have now been involved in 3 national strikes. After the first one, forgive me, I can not remember the year, I withdrew from the Union as I did not believe they had done me any favours. In fact, my office rep ended up as my office manager just 6 short months later. No better way to neutralise the enemy than placing them on the payroll so the former defender can now shaft you.

I remained a non union employee right up until 1987 when I rejoined as we approached another national strike. I thought that the Union would be the best place to fight the unfair Royal Mail proposals. After losing pay that I could ill afford, I was disgusted to see that the Union had sold out to every proposal that Royal Mail had put forward. I remained a member though.

I did not want to strike last year. That was the last thing I wanted. I knew that we should all stand together though. So again, I lost pay for the cause. I was happy to go back to work, I knew deep down though, that the union had caved in again. You can imagine my disgust, when after losing pay yet again, I saw the "fantastic deal" negotiated by the union. I have wasted weeks of pay fighting useless causes. Sorry, I have probably achieved what the Union leaders wanted, they kept their nice well paid jobs and feelings of self importance, while I lost pay.

I am seriously contemplating voting yes to this deal, purely and simply because I want out now, I would be happy to take a pay off and get the f**k out of this job. I could get a nice bonus for accepting, then take my redundancy and go. The problem is I know that I will be leaving colleagues to take the real shafting that Royal Mail want to give them. Whatever the result, the Union have lost another member (again).

Please excuse me while I apply cream to my skin condition that has flared massively in the last few weeks. A skin condition that is directly related to stress and anxiety.

[Big Daz]

Nor will you be doing unlimited door 2 door as guess what royal mail want to put another intial cap on door to door as they want to grow the product in a realistic and managable. On the deivery span you will agree that in the revision 6 step process after you have surveyed the staff and that the tools for the job are in place .

not only payed like a manager but talk like a manager

Hold back! He's giving you info.

I agree, info is info dont shoot the messenger,

What we need to ask ourselves boys and girls is do we belive RML will be true to their word,

[drb]

Bloody sorry to hear of your condition! Look,we need to all stick together on any issue those,well,I will not mention it,as Postman will ban me! If they give any proposals,(if your office is weak then it won't be a proposal).

Tell them that it would need membership ratification. Don't just accept it. You will see the benefits. The busieness needs our support.If not then they know it won't work.Simple as that.
Tell your current rep that this is the case.
Once again,sorry about your condition.......

[Big Daz]

drb

I agreed a pegasus revision as there was area terms of reference in place and my mbrs voted in favour of the finished revision and there was CWU involvement. I had no knowledge of that being wrong, in fact I have been led to belive something different from waht dingo has posted on here about revisions. However I suspect the area terms of reference for pegasus were agreed before the dont get involved policy came into place and the area del rep choose to stay involved presumably with HQ blessing.

[drb]

Hi Big Daz,

There was a huge amount of grey area on these revisions.Yes HQ's divisional reps screwed there.However,let's do what's best for us.

[Big Daz]

Very mild state of affairs in the end pegasus was, 10 months to take out just 1 urban bike delivery. Nice work that planning stuff if you can get it

SDD was around 3 months to move everyone to 3.5 hours and 5 day week without a computer

Tabletop vs Computer and the tabletop comes out trumps

[axeman]

Rather concerned that both night tonic , tman and dingo are in unison is this the start of the new realations with royal fail iv'e heard about

also is it any wonder why rank & file are highly critical of there union for it's plain to see who's side ward & hayes are on isn't it , lets hope everyone sees this agreement for it's worth and votes it out

[BELIAL]

Simple question really isn't it, Are you better off before or after this deal?
Do management make bigger profits and get bigger bonuses before or after this deal?
Why would you promote a deal that cut the terms and conditions of ordinary members?

[numan]

This agreement the members will decide and then if you want you can leave the union and then become a free loader as nothing gets agreed unless the CWU do it be that in your office or nationally.

The CWU have survived a lot more contreverisal things then this ballot IWM and the Way Forward make this opposition look like the Queens tea party.

But hey you can contiue to slag of indivduals from the safety of the your keyboard.

Well unless that scenario happens, he is still a paying member and perfectly entitled to criticise decisions that the CWU top brass make on our behalf.

[MinisterofCucumber]

Postcomm don't get to decide how liberalisation is implemented. Its set in stone by the EU. Postcomm's job is to make sure Royal Mail complies with the Postal Services Act and that companies work within EU rules. Might help if you knew what you were talking about and Dingo has it right on the button.

Night Tonic,

You are wrong. How liberalisation is implemented is not set in stone. Every country implements liberalisation in different ways. Finland found a way to liberalise the postal market and protect its national postal service at the same time. If you were right, then every country would have DSA.

Paragraph 23 of the 3rd postal directive confirms what I say:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 020:EN:PDF" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[mucker]

Simple question really isn't it, Are you better off before or after this deal?

worst off

Do management make bigger profits and get bigger bonuses before or after this deal?

will find out soon enough,but i suspect before and after

Why would you promote a deal that cut the terms and conditions of ordinary members?

no *ucking chance,even when i was a rep,i couldnt peddle *ullshite

[Night Tonic]

Night Tonic,

You are wrong. How liberalisation is implemented is not set in stone. Paragraph 23 of the 3rd postal directive confirms what I say:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 020:EN:PDF" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thats the universal service which is not the same as liberalisation. All EU countries are required to liberalise their postal markets. The reason RML takes DSA is because it takes the view that its better to take SOME money than NONE. Without modern equipment it can't beat the DSA guys. Change IS inevitable and whether you like it or not, its coming. The country will be baffled, to say the least, if its seen that we're turning down this deal when things are so rough financially. Like Ward says, there is nowhere to go on this. If you're dumb enough to think voting No and returning to IA will change anything, then you're in for a big surprise.

As for being 'worse off', well diddlyhoo. Welcome to the real world.

[bogstandard]

not even read the agreement ?

possibly as they have not been sent one, and will not be. Not a slur on the poster, just highlighting this much overlooked fact.
Personally to me, it stinks. My union pointing out where i can get a copy of the agreement but not ensuring i am in posession of one. How can you (Dave Ward)want people to vote from a position of knowledge when your actions fall well short of making sure this is the case??????????
or maybe as an 80 page document it take a lot of time to read, digest, understand and ask questions.
although we are being asked to vote on an agreement that Mr. collins believes (he is not alone in this belief)will be the start of negotiations(according to the dvd), also on an agreement, that like the 07 agreement is incomplete.

Yesterday on R5 JCB announced a 3% increase this year with rises in line with inflation in 2011 2012.
Q. why is the lions share of the rises on offer in the final year with strings attached.
Q. can we expect to get stuffed just like The Way Forward agreement, which was agreed although when push came to shove the business said we're not paying you the £300 we agreed we would unless we get 1 delivery.

[MinisterofCucumber]

Night Tonic,

You claim:

"The reason RML takes DSA is because it takes the view that its better to take SOME money than NONE."

RML didn't get a choice. The regulator decided that RM should deliver competitors' mail the 'final mile' and the regulator decides how much we charge them.

If the DSA guys had to provide the Universal Service Obligation as they do in Finland, it wouldn't be worth their while poaching our best earners.

For some reason, Mandelson wants to hand over the most profitable parts of RM to private firms. The Labour party decided to carry out liberalisation in this way and they are being helped to finish the job by the CWU.

The CWU serves itself first, the Labour Party second and its members last.